1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:10,677 --> 00:00:11,928 -Hey. -Hey. 4 00:00:12,012 --> 00:00:12,929 -How you doin'? -[kisses] 5 00:00:15,849 --> 00:00:17,308 -You look great. -Yeah? 6 00:00:18,309 --> 00:00:19,144 I've lost some weight. 7 00:00:20,186 --> 00:00:22,522 Yeah. Hey, but you look good, you look great. 8 00:00:22,605 --> 00:00:23,648 -Hey. -Hey. 9 00:00:24,607 --> 00:00:26,026 [kisses] 10 00:00:26,109 --> 00:00:28,945 -Hey. Good seeing you. -Good seeing you. You look great. 11 00:00:29,029 --> 00:00:32,782 All right, this is living room, take one. AB common mark. 12 00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:35,035 -[man] And we are speed and set. -Rolling. 13 00:00:35,118 --> 00:00:36,911 [man 2] Hey, Sam, do you want to pick up a photo there 14 00:00:36,995 --> 00:00:38,538 and tell me what we're looking at? 15 00:00:42,459 --> 00:00:46,463 This is a Christmas with my daughter and my son. 16 00:00:46,546 --> 00:00:49,215 -[Gerard] Is that in Brooklyn? -I want to think that's Grandma and Grandpa's house 17 00:00:49,299 --> 00:00:50,592 in Long Island. 18 00:00:50,675 --> 00:00:52,802 And then this is you, got a little older. 19 00:00:53,303 --> 00:00:54,971 We're on a boat. 20 00:00:55,055 --> 00:00:57,015 -Those were, like, the best memories of my life. -That was amazing. 21 00:00:58,558 --> 00:01:00,101 [Karen] This is my communion. 22 00:01:00,185 --> 00:01:03,813 Gerard, look how short you were. [chuckles] 23 00:01:03,897 --> 00:01:07,275 [Karen] Look how innocent you look, just young and innocent. 24 00:01:07,359 --> 00:01:10,445 Did you ever go to confession and tell the priest your sins? 25 00:01:10,528 --> 00:01:13,448 Mmm, yeah, I went to confession. 26 00:01:13,531 --> 00:01:16,576 I told the priest, "You tell me yours and I'll tell you mine." 27 00:01:22,749 --> 00:01:25,210 [Sammy] My name is Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano. 28 00:01:26,753 --> 00:01:28,213 I'm a fucking gangster. 29 00:01:29,756 --> 00:01:31,633 [man] On the right is John Gotti. 30 00:01:31,716 --> 00:01:35,553 On the left, his trusted assistant Sammy the Bull. 31 00:01:35,595 --> 00:01:38,264 Gravano committed 19 mob murders. 32 00:01:38,348 --> 00:01:41,351 Like my father, I also believed in Cosa Nostra. 33 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,396 But then everything changed. 34 00:01:45,271 --> 00:01:46,690 Am I a rat? 35 00:01:46,773 --> 00:01:49,859 I took fucking 20 years to help my kids and my family. Is that a rat? 36 00:01:51,444 --> 00:01:54,531 [Gerard] This is a story that we never allowed my father to tell. 37 00:01:54,614 --> 00:01:56,866 [reporter] This is Phoenix, Arizona, 38 00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:59,828 and this will be our armchair vacation 39 00:01:59,911 --> 00:02:01,705 to The Valley of the Sun. 40 00:02:02,872 --> 00:02:04,582 [Karen] When we moved to Phoenix 41 00:02:04,624 --> 00:02:06,418 we were definitely fish out of water. 42 00:02:06,459 --> 00:02:09,461 -[crowd cheering] -[Karen] But there was this whole underbelly 43 00:02:09,545 --> 00:02:11,756 in the middle of the desert having rave parties. 44 00:02:11,798 --> 00:02:16,261 [reporter] What keeps much of the action pumping, according to authorities... 45 00:02:16,302 --> 00:02:19,764 -...is the drug ecstasy. -[woman whispers] Ecstasy. 46 00:02:19,806 --> 00:02:23,768 [Gerard] I didn't come to Arizona to sell drugs but I was built for this shit. 47 00:02:23,810 --> 00:02:26,813 I wanted to control the ecstasy scene here in Arizona. 48 00:02:28,481 --> 00:02:31,067 But then some guys started undercutting us. 49 00:02:32,152 --> 00:02:33,862 -[woman] It was Shaun. -[man] It was Shaun. 50 00:02:33,945 --> 00:02:36,906 -[man 2] It was Shaun. -[man 3] It was Shaun who was the mastermind 51 00:02:36,990 --> 00:02:38,283 to our ecstasy empire. 52 00:02:38,324 --> 00:02:40,493 It's fuck or be fucked in this world. 53 00:02:41,494 --> 00:02:43,872 [Gerard] This means fucking war. 54 00:02:43,954 --> 00:02:46,916 It's not fun anymore. Now we're getting automatic weapons. 55 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:47,959 [man] Get down! Get down! 56 00:02:48,001 --> 00:02:49,002 [man 2] It's like a fuckin' movie. 57 00:02:50,253 --> 00:02:53,340 [Gerard] I was prepared to kill him. 58 00:02:53,423 --> 00:02:55,508 -[thunder rumbling] -[Shaun] And then the name "Sammy the Bull" Gravano 59 00:02:55,591 --> 00:02:57,010 entered my sphere. 60 00:02:58,511 --> 00:03:00,138 I don't give a flying fuck. 61 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:02,599 We'll go to war [clicks] like that. 62 00:03:04,517 --> 00:03:06,353 It was me and my family against the world. 63 00:03:33,046 --> 00:03:34,839 [Gerard] When we moved to Arizona, 64 00:03:35,965 --> 00:03:37,466 it was completely different than New York. 65 00:03:41,554 --> 00:03:44,224 I grew up with people that would pick up a gun and shoot you in two seconds. 66 00:03:57,362 --> 00:03:58,780 This is a story that I'm gonna tell 67 00:03:58,863 --> 00:04:01,116 that we never allowed my father to tell, 68 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:02,325 me and my whole family... 69 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:05,912 ...but let's start at the beginning. 70 00:04:10,041 --> 00:04:11,918 We grew up in Staten Island. 71 00:04:12,752 --> 00:04:15,046 A very, very tight-knit family. 72 00:04:18,257 --> 00:04:20,093 This was my sister's birthday. 73 00:04:22,095 --> 00:04:23,680 That's me. 74 00:04:23,763 --> 00:04:27,684 That's my sister, and there's my father. 75 00:04:27,767 --> 00:04:30,854 He was always present in our lives, 76 00:04:30,937 --> 00:04:35,108 but at that time I really didn't know anything about what my father did. 77 00:04:37,777 --> 00:04:40,697 [Karen] At the time, everything seemed normal to me. 78 00:04:40,780 --> 00:04:44,159 I came home and I was surrounded by love, family. 79 00:04:44,242 --> 00:04:47,829 My father was a provider, he was a protector, and he was a friend. 80 00:04:47,912 --> 00:04:49,247 He was someone that I always knew 81 00:04:49,289 --> 00:04:50,957 was gonna be there, no matter what, 82 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:53,293 so I didn't question much. 83 00:04:55,712 --> 00:04:59,257 But then, at my sweet 16, I remember my friend told me, 84 00:04:59,299 --> 00:05:00,842 "John Gotti's here." 85 00:05:00,925 --> 00:05:04,346 It was at that point I realized my father's first family 86 00:05:04,429 --> 00:05:06,264 was the Gambino family. 87 00:05:06,306 --> 00:05:07,932 He was a gangster to the core. 88 00:05:07,974 --> 00:05:09,100 He's Sammy the Bull. 89 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,230 [reporter] John Gotti and his underboss, "Sammy the Bull" Gravano, 90 00:05:14,314 --> 00:05:16,691 are two of the most notorious and infamous figures 91 00:05:16,775 --> 00:05:18,985 in the history of organized crime in America. 92 00:05:20,987 --> 00:05:23,323 Gravano committed 19 mob murders, 93 00:05:23,406 --> 00:05:25,575 but none were as expertly carried out 94 00:05:25,658 --> 00:05:27,952 as the brazen 1985 assassination 95 00:05:27,994 --> 00:05:29,829 of mob boss Paul Castellano. 96 00:05:31,748 --> 00:05:34,959 [Gerard] I never judged what my father did for one second. 97 00:05:35,001 --> 00:05:38,004 Back then, I also believed in Cosa Nostra. 98 00:05:38,088 --> 00:05:40,965 If he killed someone they deserved to die. 99 00:05:41,007 --> 00:05:43,343 They did something wrong or broke the rules. 100 00:05:46,596 --> 00:05:50,850 Being surround by that life made me want to do the same things. 101 00:05:50,933 --> 00:05:55,271 It made me want to go out and hurt people and commit robberies. 102 00:05:55,355 --> 00:05:58,191 I wanted to be ready, I wanted to know how to handle it, 103 00:06:00,110 --> 00:06:04,030 so I was 15 and boxed at Gleason's Gym in Brooklyn, New York. 104 00:06:06,783 --> 00:06:09,577 I was in great shape, and I was fighting people, 105 00:06:09,661 --> 00:06:12,997 and I was building this confidence within myself. 106 00:06:13,039 --> 00:06:17,168 I started getting respected because I was the son of Sammy the Bull. 107 00:06:18,545 --> 00:06:21,006 That gave me a sense of power 108 00:06:21,047 --> 00:06:23,049 that I can do what I want to do... 109 00:06:25,010 --> 00:06:26,636 ...and there was gonna be no repercussion. 110 00:06:28,388 --> 00:06:30,223 And then everything changed. 111 00:06:32,142 --> 00:06:34,853 [reporter] In 1991, facing life in prison, 112 00:06:34,894 --> 00:06:39,107 "Sammy the Bull" Gravano turned on his boss, John Gotti. 113 00:06:39,190 --> 00:06:43,695 John Gotti, I, along with some others, murdered Paul Castellano. 114 00:06:43,737 --> 00:06:45,405 John Gotti became the boss. 115 00:06:45,488 --> 00:06:47,157 I became the official underboss, 116 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,411 which I held until I began to cooperate with the government in 1991. 117 00:06:51,494 --> 00:06:53,204 [reporter 2] Sammy the Bull's testimony 118 00:06:53,246 --> 00:06:56,541 was crucial in convicting the infamous mob boss John Gotti, 119 00:06:56,582 --> 00:06:58,877 but it had also made him a prime target 120 00:06:58,918 --> 00:07:00,462 for the criminal underworld. 121 00:07:00,545 --> 00:07:03,256 This development is likely to have significant 122 00:07:03,340 --> 00:07:06,634 and potentially dangerous repercussions. 123 00:07:06,718 --> 00:07:08,720 [reporter 3] Despite admitting to 19 murders, 124 00:07:08,762 --> 00:07:12,057 "Sammy the Bull" Gravano served only five years in lockup 125 00:07:12,098 --> 00:07:14,601 before being released into the witness protection program. 126 00:07:18,271 --> 00:07:20,398 They told my father he had to do two years 127 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,068 in the witness protection program in Colorado 128 00:07:23,735 --> 00:07:25,195 and then he was done. 129 00:07:25,278 --> 00:07:27,322 We never went to Colorado when he was there. 130 00:07:27,405 --> 00:07:28,782 We weren't allowed to. 131 00:07:30,116 --> 00:07:31,910 But me, my mother, and my sister 132 00:07:31,951 --> 00:07:33,787 never went in the witness protection program. 133 00:07:33,870 --> 00:07:34,913 We had nothing to do with it. 134 00:07:36,039 --> 00:07:37,457 And we all stayed in New York. 135 00:07:39,376 --> 00:07:41,878 And I had to take on the role as the man of the family, 136 00:07:41,961 --> 00:07:46,216 and at that time I was about 17, but I was willing to fight. 137 00:07:47,801 --> 00:07:49,761 I was on high guard. 138 00:07:49,803 --> 00:07:54,099 I did get two guns and I carried them everywhere I went. 139 00:07:54,140 --> 00:07:56,643 And I was gonna do anything I had to do to protect my family. 140 00:08:00,397 --> 00:08:05,068 And then, a few months later, the FBI goes to my father. 141 00:08:05,151 --> 00:08:07,153 They're like, "There was a hit put on Gerard." 142 00:08:09,948 --> 00:08:13,910 They're gonna kill me to send a message to my father. 143 00:08:13,993 --> 00:08:16,162 That was the plan. 144 00:08:16,246 --> 00:08:20,667 My mother said, "That's it, I'm not doing this anymore. We have to leave New York." 145 00:08:21,751 --> 00:08:23,545 So we decided to move to Phoenix 146 00:08:23,628 --> 00:08:28,133 to be closer to where my father was in witness protection. 147 00:08:28,174 --> 00:08:30,802 Before we left, we dug up my father's money. 148 00:08:32,136 --> 00:08:33,679 I put it in the back of my truck, 149 00:08:33,763 --> 00:08:38,143 and I was driving across country with 3 million cash. 150 00:08:38,183 --> 00:08:40,979 [Karen] As soon as my father left the witness protection program, 151 00:08:41,020 --> 00:08:42,938 which he was only in for seven months, 152 00:08:43,023 --> 00:08:45,025 he came straight to Phoenix. 153 00:08:45,108 --> 00:08:47,736 [reporter] Sammy the Bull's future whereabouts are uncertain. 154 00:08:47,819 --> 00:08:51,406 However, given his past, he may not be the most desirable neighbor. 155 00:08:51,489 --> 00:08:54,492 But if he can effectively conceal his previous identity, 156 00:08:54,534 --> 00:08:57,245 his new neighbors won't know that living in their midst 157 00:08:57,328 --> 00:08:59,039 is a man with a price on his head. 158 00:09:20,060 --> 00:09:22,228 [Sammy] When I became a main member in the mafia 159 00:09:22,854 --> 00:09:24,189 that was a high for me. 160 00:09:26,024 --> 00:09:29,152 I was involved in three mafia wars... 161 00:09:29,235 --> 00:09:31,696 ...and I was involved in 19 murders. 162 00:09:32,864 --> 00:09:36,951 I didn't like a hit but I was focused on it. 163 00:09:37,035 --> 00:09:42,248 To me, the mafia was no different than being a soldier in the army. 164 00:09:42,332 --> 00:09:46,503 I never killed a woman, a child, or people out of the life. 165 00:09:46,586 --> 00:09:49,798 It was always people who broke the rules of Cosa Nostra. 166 00:09:49,881 --> 00:09:51,007 You knew what it was. 167 00:09:53,551 --> 00:09:55,261 But everybody knew the life... 168 00:09:56,388 --> 00:09:59,099 ...and they knew the consequences of the life. 169 00:10:02,435 --> 00:10:04,604 I cooperated at one time in my life. 170 00:10:07,357 --> 00:10:08,692 And I tell my family... 171 00:10:09,776 --> 00:10:10,860 ..."I broke the rule... 172 00:10:12,112 --> 00:10:15,073 ...and I could be killed at any time." 173 00:10:16,741 --> 00:10:19,119 I came to Phoenix to be with my family. 174 00:10:20,412 --> 00:10:22,747 I wasn't gonna just sit back and hide... 175 00:10:23,790 --> 00:10:25,375 ...so I kept my name. 176 00:10:25,458 --> 00:10:26,793 My father gave me that name, 177 00:10:26,876 --> 00:10:28,461 and that's the name I wanted to die with. 178 00:10:29,963 --> 00:10:33,049 I didn't live with my family, I lived by myself 179 00:10:33,133 --> 00:10:35,760 because I knew the mafia would come. 180 00:10:35,802 --> 00:10:40,473 I had a .357 Magnum I always carried around under my belt. 181 00:10:41,808 --> 00:10:44,394 There was four loaded guns in my apartment. 182 00:10:45,603 --> 00:10:49,441 I was geared and ready for any fuckin' hit guy 183 00:10:49,482 --> 00:10:51,151 who would have came down lookin' for me. 184 00:10:58,408 --> 00:10:59,909 [Sammy] You cookin' up a storm? 185 00:10:59,993 --> 00:11:01,369 -He hasn't started yet. -[Gerard] Yeah, I'm gonna make... 186 00:11:01,453 --> 00:11:04,122 -He was waiting for you. -I'm waiting for you. I'll make some breakfast. 187 00:11:04,164 --> 00:11:07,917 It's like when we first moved out here to Phoenix and started our new life, 188 00:11:08,001 --> 00:11:09,961 and you finally came in and joined. 189 00:11:10,003 --> 00:11:12,213 It was like we never tried to hide. 190 00:11:12,297 --> 00:11:14,841 We got away from the mafia, we got away from everything... 191 00:11:14,924 --> 00:11:16,634 -...we got away from our past. -[Gerard] Yeah, but there was always 192 00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:20,180 -that possible threat of something happening. -Oh, yeah, of course. 193 00:11:20,263 --> 00:11:22,223 Actually, when I first came to Arizona 194 00:11:22,307 --> 00:11:25,977 I got concealed weapon permits, I bought two, three guns, 195 00:11:26,019 --> 00:11:27,771 because I was the man of the house 196 00:11:27,854 --> 00:11:30,398 -for a long time. -[Sammy] While I was gone, right. 197 00:11:30,482 --> 00:11:32,942 [Gerard] And now you stepped back into that role. 198 00:11:33,026 --> 00:11:36,029 My feelings is like, "Okay, now, what do we do?" 199 00:11:37,113 --> 00:11:39,657 It was, again, we were reunited, 200 00:11:39,699 --> 00:11:41,201 and it was us against the world. 201 00:11:43,203 --> 00:11:44,537 [Sammy] When I came to Phoenix, 202 00:11:44,621 --> 00:11:48,165 my thinking was no matter how much they do to us, 203 00:11:49,042 --> 00:11:50,168 we survive... 204 00:11:51,127 --> 00:11:51,961 ...and we go forward. 205 00:11:53,129 --> 00:11:56,549 I wanted nothing to do with my old life. I'm done. 206 00:11:57,676 --> 00:12:00,679 I wanted a good life, clean life. 207 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,889 I was about to change my life. 208 00:12:05,058 --> 00:12:09,771 So I started business, legitimate businesses. 209 00:12:09,854 --> 00:12:15,568 I had a pool company, an excavation company, a construction company, 210 00:12:15,652 --> 00:12:18,279 a restaurant, Uncle Sal's Italian restaurant. 211 00:12:18,363 --> 00:12:22,867 Gerard was in culinary school, so my father thought this would be a great opportunity. 212 00:12:28,164 --> 00:12:31,376 [Gerard] That's me cooking. Yeah, I was in good shape back then. 213 00:12:35,213 --> 00:12:36,923 [Karen] We were trying to start a new life, 214 00:12:37,007 --> 00:12:39,634 but one thing I will say, we were definitely fish out of water. 215 00:12:39,718 --> 00:12:41,803 -Let's just put that out. -Yeah, no, no, we were. 216 00:12:41,886 --> 00:12:46,224 It was totally different lifestyle from New York to Arizona, 217 00:12:46,266 --> 00:12:47,350 especially at that time. 218 00:12:47,434 --> 00:12:48,768 I felt like Phoenix was so slow. 219 00:12:48,852 --> 00:12:50,020 Did you feel the same way, Gerard? 220 00:12:50,103 --> 00:12:51,312 -Go out and see... -Yeah, the people I would meet 221 00:12:51,396 --> 00:12:52,230 and they were wearing flip flops 222 00:12:52,272 --> 00:12:54,149 and socks up to their knees. 223 00:12:54,232 --> 00:12:55,567 It was a different world. 224 00:12:55,608 --> 00:12:58,945 For me, I was lookin' to rebuild my life 225 00:12:59,029 --> 00:13:00,405 and start from scratch. 226 00:13:01,948 --> 00:13:03,825 [Karen] I remember saying to my brother, 227 00:13:03,908 --> 00:13:05,410 "You have to start making some friends 228 00:13:05,452 --> 00:13:07,704 and rebuild everything that we lost in New York. 229 00:13:07,787 --> 00:13:09,581 We have to start rebuilding it here in Phoenix." 230 00:13:18,214 --> 00:13:19,758 [Gerard] One night, I'm in my restaurant... 231 00:13:21,134 --> 00:13:25,555 ...and a friend walks in with this charming guy named Mike Papa. 232 00:13:25,638 --> 00:13:28,558 He's from Long Island, he's Italian. 233 00:13:28,641 --> 00:13:31,061 He was a good looking kid, he was very articulate. 234 00:13:31,144 --> 00:13:33,980 I was told that he was going to ASU. He was a med student. 235 00:13:34,898 --> 00:13:36,316 [Gerard] He walked in and sat down, 236 00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:39,694 and he plops down $1,000 on the desk. 237 00:13:39,778 --> 00:13:40,779 And I said, "What is that?" 238 00:13:41,654 --> 00:13:42,655 He said, "It's a gift. 239 00:13:42,739 --> 00:13:44,991 I want you to have this from me, 240 00:13:45,075 --> 00:13:47,035 but I want you to come out with us one night." 241 00:13:47,118 --> 00:13:48,703 So I said, "You know, why not?" 242 00:13:48,787 --> 00:13:50,747 I took the 1,000, I put it in my pocket. 243 00:13:51,456 --> 00:13:53,583 Next night, I go out with him. 244 00:13:53,667 --> 00:13:58,171 We walk in to the VIP. The bouncer gives us this table. 245 00:13:58,254 --> 00:14:01,341 He puts a bottle on the table. Everything is on the house. 246 00:14:01,424 --> 00:14:03,385 I felt like I was back in New York. 247 00:14:03,468 --> 00:14:06,262 [Karen] Who doesn't want to go out and pop bottles? 248 00:14:06,346 --> 00:14:08,640 We came from a lifestyle like that in New York. 249 00:14:08,682 --> 00:14:10,809 Anything we wanted, we got. 250 00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:14,771 It's like that life that was ripped away from us just started coming back. 251 00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:20,443 [Gerard] And at that point, I became fast friends with Mike Papa. 252 00:14:20,527 --> 00:14:23,780 He's very popular in town and the club scene, 253 00:14:23,863 --> 00:14:24,989 and everyone knew who he was. 254 00:14:25,031 --> 00:14:28,076 And so going to these nightclubs, 255 00:14:28,159 --> 00:14:31,496 I started to notice he was selling ecstasy. 256 00:14:39,212 --> 00:14:41,047 I was closing up for the night, 257 00:14:41,965 --> 00:14:43,299 and Mike Papa comes in and says, 258 00:14:43,383 --> 00:14:45,301 "You know, I really cornered the market, 259 00:14:45,385 --> 00:14:49,431 and if you come in with me we can really make some good money with this." 260 00:14:49,514 --> 00:14:51,307 So I said, "What are we gonna make from 'em?" 261 00:14:51,391 --> 00:14:54,853 "We'll make about 2, maybe 250 per pill." 262 00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:57,188 And you're selling 30,000 pills a week? 263 00:14:57,230 --> 00:14:58,940 That don't sound bad. 264 00:14:59,024 --> 00:15:03,445 And, at that time, I was about 20, $30,000 in credit card debt, 265 00:15:03,528 --> 00:15:07,073 so I had a motivation to go out and make fast money. 266 00:15:08,658 --> 00:15:10,243 So I said, "What do you need from me?" 267 00:15:10,326 --> 00:15:12,328 Mike Papa said, "We need a supplier. 268 00:15:12,412 --> 00:15:14,164 We need to get this product cheaper." 269 00:15:15,707 --> 00:15:18,209 -I knew people in New York and people I grew up with -[beeps] 270 00:15:18,251 --> 00:15:19,794 that I was still very friendly with... 271 00:15:19,878 --> 00:15:21,838 -...and I started asking around... -[telephone ringing] 272 00:15:21,921 --> 00:15:24,132 ..."Can we get ecstasy? What's the price?" 273 00:15:24,215 --> 00:15:25,258 I was trying to get it cheaper. 274 00:15:25,925 --> 00:15:27,469 Well, I did find someone. 275 00:15:27,552 --> 00:15:30,638 I had it set up where I was gonna get 30, 40,000 pills. 276 00:15:30,722 --> 00:15:33,725 But then, somehow or another, my sister found out. 277 00:15:35,393 --> 00:15:37,812 [Karen] So now there's all this talk about New York. 278 00:15:37,896 --> 00:15:38,730 "New York, New York." 279 00:15:38,772 --> 00:15:40,315 Talking about he's gonna start 280 00:15:40,398 --> 00:15:43,151 selling ecstasy because he has connections where he can get it in New York. 281 00:15:43,234 --> 00:15:45,403 Gerard had left New York 'cause there was a hit put out on him. 282 00:15:45,445 --> 00:15:47,781 So, I'm thinking, "If Gerard goes there... 283 00:15:49,282 --> 00:15:50,617 ...connects with the wrong person... 284 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:52,952 [gun firing] 285 00:15:53,703 --> 00:15:55,538 ...it's gonna be bad." 286 00:15:55,622 --> 00:15:58,500 So, my instinct is to go to the man 287 00:15:58,583 --> 00:16:00,627 that I go to whenever I'm in trouble, 288 00:16:00,710 --> 00:16:03,254 and that man is my father. 289 00:16:03,296 --> 00:16:06,800 My father was, obviously, a big gangster outside of the house, 290 00:16:06,883 --> 00:16:09,636 but what he did outside of the house never reflected in the house. 291 00:16:09,719 --> 00:16:12,430 He was such a good father. 292 00:16:12,472 --> 00:16:15,809 He would bend over backwards if he knows that can he help me or Gerard. 293 00:16:17,477 --> 00:16:19,187 [Sammy] I have a split personality, 294 00:16:19,270 --> 00:16:21,106 part of me is a lion 295 00:16:22,565 --> 00:16:23,817 and part of me is a lamb. 296 00:16:27,904 --> 00:16:29,656 This is a great memory. 297 00:16:29,739 --> 00:16:32,325 -Put 'em up, G. -Okay, Dad. 298 00:16:32,409 --> 00:16:33,576 [Sammy] Here's what I did in a the mob, 299 00:16:33,660 --> 00:16:35,620 when I was making money I bought a farm. 300 00:16:35,662 --> 00:16:38,540 All right, Gerard! 301 00:16:38,623 --> 00:16:42,669 And I bought them horses, and mini bikes, and chickens, 302 00:16:42,752 --> 00:16:46,131 and you name it, it was a farm. 303 00:16:46,172 --> 00:16:48,717 See, that's when they stop on my foot. 304 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,678 Friday night, I left the mob behind me 305 00:16:52,429 --> 00:16:53,430 and I did this. 306 00:16:56,141 --> 00:17:00,854 I found happiness away from a violent lifestyle. 307 00:17:02,689 --> 00:17:04,691 When I was there I wasn't in the mafia. 308 00:17:05,692 --> 00:17:08,611 I wasn't a hitman, I was a dad. 309 00:17:10,530 --> 00:17:12,866 Look at the smile on his face as a kid. 310 00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:14,325 And my son's like a cowboy. 311 00:17:14,367 --> 00:17:15,785 Nice day on the tracks, Gerard... 312 00:17:19,664 --> 00:17:22,000 I kept Gerard away from the mafia, 313 00:17:22,041 --> 00:17:23,501 a lot of guys bring their kids in. 314 00:17:25,127 --> 00:17:29,382 I'd never had intentions of bringing my son into the life. 315 00:17:32,177 --> 00:17:34,596 So, when I heard Gerard was selling drugs 316 00:17:34,679 --> 00:17:38,308 I was so angry, I wanted to get him outta that business. 317 00:17:41,561 --> 00:17:43,313 [Gerard] I remember sitting in my house, 318 00:17:43,396 --> 00:17:45,398 I was by myself, I was watching TV. 319 00:17:47,317 --> 00:17:50,236 Next thing I know, my front door comes crashing in. 320 00:17:51,905 --> 00:17:56,409 It's my father. He runs up to me, tackles me, and he's like, 321 00:17:56,493 --> 00:17:58,828 "What the fuck are you doing? What are you thinking? 322 00:17:58,912 --> 00:18:02,415 You wanna go to New York? You wanna fucking sell drugs?" 323 00:18:02,499 --> 00:18:05,085 I said, "You can't come here and deal drugs." 324 00:18:05,168 --> 00:18:08,171 [Gerard] He felt like I was going behind his back, 325 00:18:08,254 --> 00:18:12,342 doing something that could affect him and the entire family. 326 00:18:12,425 --> 00:18:16,638 I didn't want him going into New York for fear for his life. 327 00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:18,390 [Gerard] And he shook me and he said, 328 00:18:18,431 --> 00:18:19,307 "Do you wanna die? 329 00:18:19,391 --> 00:18:20,725 I'll kill you if you wanna die. 330 00:18:20,767 --> 00:18:24,521 I'm not gonna let anyone else kill my son. I'm not gonna allow it." 331 00:18:24,604 --> 00:18:26,231 [Sammy] I tell ya, I'll kill ya myself. 332 00:18:26,272 --> 00:18:29,192 I said, "I'm not asking you. I'm telling you, don't do it." 333 00:18:31,027 --> 00:18:35,490 I was here in Phoenix and moved outta New York because of his choices. 334 00:18:35,573 --> 00:18:38,410 But I never questioned his choices. 335 00:18:38,451 --> 00:18:45,208 So me, I'm 22 years old, and he's in my house telling me what to do, 336 00:18:45,291 --> 00:18:46,710 questioning my choices. 337 00:18:53,967 --> 00:18:55,385 I didn't need him anymore. 338 00:18:55,468 --> 00:18:57,721 And I wasn't gonna be told what to do. 339 00:18:57,804 --> 00:18:59,055 And I told him that night, 340 00:18:59,139 --> 00:19:02,267 if he wanted to go to war with me, if that's what he wished, 341 00:19:02,976 --> 00:19:03,893 we can do so. 342 00:19:03,977 --> 00:19:06,187 Listen, I don't give a flying fuck. 343 00:19:06,271 --> 00:19:08,648 We'll go to war [snaps fingers] like that. 344 00:19:10,442 --> 00:19:13,653 [Gerard] My father was so devastated that he just left. 345 00:19:18,908 --> 00:19:19,826 I went to New York 346 00:19:20,952 --> 00:19:23,288 I think I got, like, 30,000 hits of ecstasy. 347 00:19:25,749 --> 00:19:27,417 I brought it back to Arizona. 348 00:19:28,793 --> 00:19:30,837 We got rid of them in a week. 349 00:19:33,673 --> 00:19:35,800 We made $90,000 profit. 350 00:19:35,842 --> 00:19:38,386 I was very successful. 351 00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:42,182 I didn't come to Arizona to sell drugs, but I was built for this shit. 352 00:19:44,517 --> 00:19:45,518 I thrived in it. 353 00:19:46,478 --> 00:19:47,687 At that point, 354 00:19:47,771 --> 00:19:50,565 I wanted to control the ecstasy scene here in Arizona 355 00:19:50,648 --> 00:19:52,525 and no one was gonna stop me. 356 00:19:59,282 --> 00:20:02,202 But then one day, Mike Papa, started telling me 357 00:20:02,285 --> 00:20:05,497 about some guy that's undercutting us. 358 00:20:05,538 --> 00:20:08,833 And that his prices were considerably lower 359 00:20:08,875 --> 00:20:11,044 and that we would not be able to compete. 360 00:20:13,213 --> 00:20:15,715 And that's how I learned about the rave scene in Arizona. 361 00:20:16,966 --> 00:20:19,219 [Karen] There's this whole underbelly, 362 00:20:19,302 --> 00:20:20,929 this whole lifestyle of people, 363 00:20:21,012 --> 00:20:22,514 that once the clubs close 364 00:20:22,555 --> 00:20:25,308 they're in the middle of the desert having rave parties. 365 00:20:27,394 --> 00:20:31,314 [Gerard] And the person who threw these raves was a guy named English Shaun. 366 00:20:33,358 --> 00:20:35,694 He controlled the ecstasy trade in Arizona. 367 00:20:39,698 --> 00:20:41,491 I told Mike Papa, "Let's talk to him. 368 00:20:41,574 --> 00:20:43,159 Maybe we can get a better deal." 369 00:20:43,243 --> 00:20:47,455 I'm not expecting to get them for what he's getting them for. 370 00:20:47,539 --> 00:20:50,875 But I expected to get it cheaper and we could all be happy. 371 00:20:52,085 --> 00:20:54,379 So we decided to contact English Shaun. 372 00:21:03,221 --> 00:21:05,432 [Shaun] My mantra was, "Greed is good." 373 00:21:06,349 --> 00:21:08,685 It's fuck or be fucked in this world. 374 00:21:10,228 --> 00:21:12,897 Whatever it takes, I'm gonna make the most money, 375 00:21:12,939 --> 00:21:14,357 whatever means possible. 376 00:21:15,442 --> 00:21:18,069 At the peak of the criminal enterprise, 377 00:21:18,111 --> 00:21:20,864 I had approximately 200 people working for me. 378 00:21:20,947 --> 00:21:25,368 The profits over the years was over $5 million dollars. 379 00:21:25,452 --> 00:21:28,872 And the street market value of those drugs 380 00:21:28,955 --> 00:21:30,540 in the 10s of millions. 381 00:21:35,253 --> 00:21:38,840 I controlled the ecstasy scene in Arizona. 382 00:21:38,923 --> 00:21:41,885 One of my biggest markets was at a club called The Ice House. 383 00:21:43,261 --> 00:21:47,766 The Ice House was the epicenter of the rave scene. 384 00:21:47,807 --> 00:21:49,684 And it was there that my master salesman, 385 00:21:49,768 --> 00:21:51,728 Schooly, made the most money. 386 00:22:00,945 --> 00:22:01,988 [Schooly] This place is different. 387 00:22:02,989 --> 00:22:04,115 A lot different. 388 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,164 I'm Schooly. 389 00:22:11,247 --> 00:22:12,999 I was English Shaun's number one salesman. 390 00:22:14,167 --> 00:22:15,794 We ran the ecstasy market 391 00:22:15,835 --> 00:22:17,837 in Phoenix through this location. 392 00:22:24,344 --> 00:22:28,098 Phoenix in the '90s was a very special place. 393 00:22:28,181 --> 00:22:31,518 Raves were new to me and new to everybody around us. 394 00:22:32,686 --> 00:22:34,145 It was like a wonderland. 395 00:22:37,357 --> 00:22:39,359 There was a place where light wouldn't come in, 396 00:22:39,442 --> 00:22:42,529 where you could step back in the shadows and nobody could see you. 397 00:22:42,612 --> 00:22:46,533 They could see everybody else, but they couldn't see past the shadow line. 398 00:22:46,616 --> 00:22:48,702 And that's where I would sell pills all night. 399 00:22:50,203 --> 00:22:53,915 I could make $14,000, $15,000, $18,000 here in a night. 400 00:22:53,998 --> 00:22:57,210 Like, my pockets would be out to here with money stuffed into 'em, 401 00:22:57,293 --> 00:22:58,211 by the end of the night. 402 00:22:59,838 --> 00:23:02,632 Everyone came to English Shaun's parties 403 00:23:02,716 --> 00:23:05,051 'cause you knew you could get the best pills there. 404 00:23:07,345 --> 00:23:09,848 But then everything started changing. 405 00:23:13,143 --> 00:23:15,562 There was a guy that usually would get pills from us. 406 00:23:16,730 --> 00:23:20,191 On day he said, "Hey, check these out." 407 00:23:20,233 --> 00:23:22,902 And he had these other pills we had never seen before. 408 00:23:23,903 --> 00:23:26,698 I'm like, "Man, where you getting these?" 409 00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:32,704 All of a sudden a new type of ecstasy dealer starts to appear on the scene, 410 00:23:33,913 --> 00:23:38,543 run by two guys called Gerard Gravano and Mike Papa. 411 00:23:39,711 --> 00:23:43,506 These guys are massive, muscle bound, 412 00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:47,177 steroid head, jock, type characters. 413 00:23:48,553 --> 00:23:50,305 Probably not dressing like ravers. 414 00:23:50,388 --> 00:23:54,267 [Schooly] They have tight shirts on, always gel in their hair. 415 00:23:54,351 --> 00:23:56,311 Like, mafia wannabes. 416 00:23:56,394 --> 00:23:57,896 The Sopranos must have been their bible 417 00:23:57,937 --> 00:24:00,190 'cause that's how they all acted. 418 00:24:00,273 --> 00:24:01,441 They were there to just... 419 00:24:02,275 --> 00:24:04,986 make money and lift weights. 420 00:24:05,070 --> 00:24:08,031 I don't know what the fuck those kids do. 421 00:24:08,114 --> 00:24:11,576 [Shaun] They became the biggest threat to the organization. 422 00:24:20,210 --> 00:24:26,508 [Gerard] Every time I reached out to English Shaun he refused to meet me. 423 00:24:26,591 --> 00:24:29,886 The way I grew up, and it goes back to New York, there was that mentality 424 00:24:29,928 --> 00:24:33,807 in my head that you're refusing to come in to talk to me. 425 00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:37,477 And my feeling was immediate disrespect. 426 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,189 So, Mike Papa asked me, "Well, what are we gonna do?" 427 00:24:41,272 --> 00:24:43,900 I said, "I'm not gonna let anyone disrespect me." 428 00:24:45,568 --> 00:24:49,906 I said to Mike Papa, "Let's go to one of Shaun's raves." 429 00:24:49,948 --> 00:24:52,033 I wanted to send a message back to Shaun, 430 00:24:53,201 --> 00:24:54,536 so we go to The Ice House. 431 00:25:01,418 --> 00:25:02,877 Wow. The Ice House. 432 00:25:02,961 --> 00:25:04,796 I use to come here back in the day. 433 00:25:04,879 --> 00:25:07,549 Me, and Mike Papa, a bunch of my friends. 434 00:25:09,092 --> 00:25:11,261 I was on planet Mars when I walked in here. 435 00:25:12,804 --> 00:25:17,475 It was a bunch of kids really, running around, waving glow sticks, 436 00:25:18,643 --> 00:25:20,645 sucking on pacifiers, 437 00:25:20,729 --> 00:25:23,314 they were like a bunch of babies jumping, bouncing off walls. 438 00:25:25,483 --> 00:25:29,738 We used to just disperse and ask who was selling drugs. 439 00:25:30,613 --> 00:25:32,657 This kid came running right up to us. 440 00:25:32,741 --> 00:25:35,952 He's like, "What'd you want? I got this kind, this kind, this kind." 441 00:25:35,994 --> 00:25:38,872 And I said, "Okay. I want more. Do you got more?" 442 00:25:38,955 --> 00:25:41,708 I'm like, "I'll pay $20 apiece, I don't care. 443 00:25:41,791 --> 00:25:43,877 I don't care, just get me a couple hundred." 444 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,838 He ran around the club probably gathered from all his little friends. 445 00:25:46,921 --> 00:25:50,258 And he came back, he said, "I have this, this, and this. 446 00:25:50,342 --> 00:25:53,178 Three different kinds, it's $200." 447 00:25:53,261 --> 00:25:55,263 I said, "All right," and I just took 'em. 448 00:25:57,307 --> 00:25:58,600 He said, "What're you doing?" 449 00:25:58,683 --> 00:26:00,185 I said, "Go tell Shaun 450 00:26:00,935 --> 00:26:02,228 that Gerard took his shit. 451 00:26:02,312 --> 00:26:03,938 And if you don't walk outta here right now 452 00:26:04,022 --> 00:26:05,523 I'm gonna send you outta here on a stretcher." 453 00:26:06,941 --> 00:26:09,778 He turned around, left with his tail between his legs, 454 00:26:09,861 --> 00:26:10,737 and I sent my message. 455 00:26:10,820 --> 00:26:12,364 I shot my shot. 456 00:26:16,993 --> 00:26:17,994 [phone ringing] 457 00:26:20,038 --> 00:26:21,915 [Shaun] After I found out that one of my dealers 458 00:26:21,998 --> 00:26:24,209 had been robbed by Gerard Gravano 459 00:26:24,292 --> 00:26:28,963 I was so determined not to lose my grip on the empire. 460 00:26:29,047 --> 00:26:32,967 At that time, in Arizona, my ego was a big as the Grand Canyon. 461 00:26:34,010 --> 00:26:36,471 I was a character in the scene. 462 00:26:36,554 --> 00:26:38,765 I've got all these people working for me. 463 00:26:38,848 --> 00:26:41,226 I'm the man, Mr. Cool guy. 464 00:26:41,309 --> 00:26:44,145 I was addicted to the lifestyle. 465 00:26:44,813 --> 00:26:47,399 But rewinding my life back, 466 00:26:47,482 --> 00:26:49,984 it's hard to believe that I ended up running 467 00:26:50,068 --> 00:26:52,570 an international ecstasy trafficking operation. 468 00:27:01,079 --> 00:27:05,000 I'm from a chemical manufacturing town just outside Liverpool 469 00:27:05,083 --> 00:27:06,376 in the Northwest of England. 470 00:27:08,378 --> 00:27:09,838 Didn't have much money growing up. 471 00:27:09,921 --> 00:27:13,675 My dad was a door-to-door insurance salesman. 472 00:27:13,758 --> 00:27:18,388 My mom was a stay-at-home mom in the beginning. 473 00:27:18,430 --> 00:27:23,309 But for me, one of my early influences was watching the movie Wall Street. 474 00:27:23,393 --> 00:27:26,980 Where Michael Douglas played Gordon Gekko, 475 00:27:27,063 --> 00:27:30,650 this corporate takeover artist. 476 00:27:30,734 --> 00:27:33,611 Greed, for lack of a better word, 477 00:27:34,446 --> 00:27:36,239 is good. 478 00:27:36,281 --> 00:27:39,325 [Shaun] So, I wanted to concur the stock market. 479 00:27:39,409 --> 00:27:42,579 I was gonna go out there make these millions, 480 00:27:42,620 --> 00:27:46,082 and become something far removed from what my father was. 481 00:27:54,466 --> 00:27:57,927 Right now, we're on the M62 to Liverpool 482 00:27:57,969 --> 00:28:00,096 where I was doing my business studies degree. 483 00:28:00,889 --> 00:28:03,224 So, this road held promise for me 484 00:28:04,225 --> 00:28:07,187 of, not just education 485 00:28:07,270 --> 00:28:11,149 and forever prospects in the stock market, and my career. 486 00:28:13,234 --> 00:28:15,153 But also [chuckling] eventually 487 00:28:16,488 --> 00:28:18,990 the thing that completely changed my destine, 488 00:28:19,824 --> 00:28:21,117 which was the rave scene. 489 00:28:24,788 --> 00:28:27,665 [reporter] It's been called a youth-culture of 1988, 490 00:28:28,667 --> 00:28:31,336 the new sound is called acid house. 491 00:28:31,419 --> 00:28:34,964 And it's not just a type of music, it's a movement. 492 00:28:35,006 --> 00:28:37,592 And it's fueled with the drug ecstasy. 493 00:28:39,344 --> 00:28:42,389 [Shaun] So, when I saw these people on TV I'm thinking, 494 00:28:42,472 --> 00:28:43,848 "I want some of that." 495 00:28:43,890 --> 00:28:48,853 Because I was a shy, anxious teenager, no way would I dance. 496 00:28:48,937 --> 00:28:52,649 The thought of dancing just mortified me. 497 00:28:52,691 --> 00:28:56,820 And then that very first time I went to the Thunderdome, all that changed. 498 00:28:58,655 --> 00:29:00,031 When I showed up at the Thunderdome 499 00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:03,034 my mate scored some ecstasy. 500 00:29:03,118 --> 00:29:05,161 He says, "You gotta neck the pill." 501 00:29:09,207 --> 00:29:10,875 So, about 30 minutes in 502 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,461 the ecstasy starts to hit. 503 00:29:14,713 --> 00:29:17,674 My body's getting all warm, my head's tingling, 504 00:29:17,716 --> 00:29:19,509 I've got goosebumps on my arms, 505 00:29:19,551 --> 00:29:21,136 it's tickling running up the spine, 506 00:29:21,219 --> 00:29:24,973 my t-shirt feels like it's melting into my body. 507 00:29:26,016 --> 00:29:29,978 I look up, I'm just smiling this massive grin. 508 00:29:30,061 --> 00:29:34,566 Boom, boom, boom, boom. 509 00:29:34,649 --> 00:29:37,527 The whole room's moving this rocking motion. 510 00:29:38,653 --> 00:29:40,572 We're doing this, doing this, 511 00:29:41,239 --> 00:29:43,241 this, and this. 512 00:29:43,324 --> 00:29:45,660 Finally, for my first time in my life, 513 00:29:46,411 --> 00:29:47,746 I'm loving dancing. 514 00:29:48,580 --> 00:29:50,206 I'm enjoying dancing. 515 00:29:51,416 --> 00:29:53,043 I never want to stop dancing. 516 00:29:54,419 --> 00:29:58,673 When I took ecstasy, all that stress and tension melted away. 517 00:30:00,925 --> 00:30:04,971 From that moment on, raving became my religion. 518 00:30:05,055 --> 00:30:06,931 I never wanted the party to end. 519 00:30:11,436 --> 00:30:16,191 I sat my final exam for my degree coming down off ecstasy. 520 00:30:16,274 --> 00:30:18,318 So, I had all these beeps and beats, 521 00:30:18,401 --> 00:30:23,239 [mimicking rave music] going off in my brain 522 00:30:23,281 --> 00:30:26,451 as I'm doing all these balance, and payments, 523 00:30:26,534 --> 00:30:29,204 equations, pages and pages of calculus. 524 00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:31,623 However, 525 00:30:32,957 --> 00:30:34,084 I aced the test. 526 00:30:34,793 --> 00:30:36,753 I've got my education, 527 00:30:36,795 --> 00:30:40,840 and all I can think about now is going over to America, 528 00:30:40,924 --> 00:30:44,552 concurring the stock market, and becoming a millionaire by the time I'm 30. 529 00:30:46,137 --> 00:30:48,973 My Aunt Sue lived in Phoenix. 530 00:30:50,475 --> 00:30:56,815 So, in May 1991, I'm embarking on my journey to Arizona. 531 00:30:59,484 --> 00:31:01,194 When I arrived in Phoenix 532 00:31:01,277 --> 00:31:03,488 all I had was my student credit cards. 533 00:31:03,571 --> 00:31:08,576 But I was so determined whatever it takes, I'm gonna rise up in America. 534 00:31:13,415 --> 00:31:18,003 My first two years in Phoenix was a penny stock brokerage outfit, 535 00:31:18,086 --> 00:31:20,547 I'm barely making ends meet. 536 00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:22,757 I'm running out of money on my student credit cards. 537 00:31:22,841 --> 00:31:26,886 But as we get to years three and four 538 00:31:26,970 --> 00:31:30,223 I start becoming the guy who's getting the most leads. 539 00:31:30,306 --> 00:31:33,476 [chuckles] And my commissions are going through the roof. 540 00:31:33,518 --> 00:31:38,606 By 1996 I'm the top producer and stock broker. 541 00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:41,276 My commissions for that year were over $500,000. 542 00:31:45,530 --> 00:31:48,658 It was then that I realized the money was great. 543 00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:53,204 But I was getting burnt out on the rat race, I needed an escape. 544 00:31:54,539 --> 00:31:57,125 And then one night I went to the Silver Dollar Club. 545 00:31:58,543 --> 00:32:00,795 Entering the Silver Dollar Club, 546 00:32:00,879 --> 00:32:03,423 could feel the goosebumps on my arms 547 00:32:03,506 --> 00:32:09,220 as I saw the DJ, strobe lights, hands in the air. 548 00:32:09,304 --> 00:32:15,727 The music that I'd enjoyed in England was just creeping into the Arizona scene. 549 00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:17,729 So I said, "We gotta get some ecstasy." 550 00:32:18,897 --> 00:32:21,816 So, we're looking around and there was this big guy, 551 00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:26,738 Moo his name was, with a bull ring through his nose. 552 00:32:26,821 --> 00:32:31,451 And he's the guy who hooked us up with ecstasy for the first time in Phoenix. 553 00:32:31,534 --> 00:32:35,372 So, as soon as that kicked in, then I was just right at home. 554 00:32:35,413 --> 00:32:38,208 Dancing my ass off all night long. 555 00:32:38,249 --> 00:32:39,709 Talking to strangers. 556 00:32:39,751 --> 00:32:41,836 Meeting the DJs. 557 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,506 I was having the absolute time of my life. 558 00:32:50,845 --> 00:32:55,225 Ecstasy was virtually impossible to source in Phoenix, Arizona. 559 00:32:55,266 --> 00:32:58,353 The most we could get from the local dealers was 50 to 100. 560 00:32:58,436 --> 00:33:01,314 In the beginning, I was just showing off 561 00:33:01,398 --> 00:33:03,608 giving them to my friends for free. 562 00:33:03,692 --> 00:33:06,861 But the demand for ecstasy is so high 563 00:33:06,945 --> 00:33:10,615 I can't even get enough to hook up my friends. 564 00:33:10,699 --> 00:33:14,160 So, I'm seeing that there is an arbitrage opportunity. 565 00:33:14,244 --> 00:33:16,579 If we can find out where these guys are getting them from, 566 00:33:16,621 --> 00:33:20,083 there's a possibility here of making a lot of cash fast. 567 00:33:23,294 --> 00:33:25,880 Found out that the locals were getting them 568 00:33:25,964 --> 00:33:31,136 from this surfer, gangster guy called Saul out of California. 569 00:33:31,219 --> 00:33:35,265 Arranged a meeting with Saul and do my first 570 00:33:35,306 --> 00:33:39,436 interstate, bulk ecstasy transaction. 571 00:33:44,107 --> 00:33:46,901 And they were going for $25 to $30 back then. 572 00:33:46,985 --> 00:33:49,279 Those pills were gone in one weekend. 573 00:33:53,491 --> 00:33:57,245 Now I saw this other path of parting, 574 00:33:57,996 --> 00:34:00,123 chemical fueled happiness. 575 00:34:00,165 --> 00:34:04,210 A lure that completely demolished 576 00:34:04,294 --> 00:34:06,338 the worth of wall street side of me. 577 00:34:07,505 --> 00:34:11,551 That's when I made the decision to go full-time 578 00:34:11,634 --> 00:34:14,971 and try making money from ecstasy and raves. 579 00:34:16,681 --> 00:34:21,978 And that's when the guy nicknamed Schooly came into my life. 580 00:34:26,024 --> 00:34:29,235 At the beginning, I'm like, "Hey, man. I wanna get a bunch of pills. 581 00:34:29,319 --> 00:34:30,737 I wanna make some money. 582 00:34:30,820 --> 00:34:33,614 Like, I really don't have a place to live, I need to get my hustle on." 583 00:34:35,324 --> 00:34:36,993 [Shaun] He was living rough. 584 00:34:37,034 --> 00:34:40,246 Smoking crack, eating out of dumpsters. 585 00:34:40,330 --> 00:34:44,376 And people warned me to avoid him. 586 00:34:44,458 --> 00:34:49,255 But my attitude was to give everybody an opportunity. 587 00:34:49,339 --> 00:34:53,176 He said, "If you can get rid of these pills for me, I'll give you a job." 588 00:34:53,217 --> 00:34:55,094 [snaps fingers] He sold 'em like that. 589 00:34:55,178 --> 00:34:58,223 I think English Shaun first saw me as an investment. 590 00:34:58,306 --> 00:35:00,475 And then it turned into a friendship, 591 00:35:00,558 --> 00:35:02,227 and then into a brotherhood. 592 00:35:02,310 --> 00:35:05,355 And we just hung out all the time, we partied together. 593 00:35:05,397 --> 00:35:09,067 And we called each other Little Brother and Big Brother. 594 00:35:09,150 --> 00:35:10,360 [British accent] Little Brother. 595 00:35:10,402 --> 00:35:12,153 [regular voice] I could count on him for anything. 596 00:35:12,237 --> 00:35:14,072 He got me out of a lot of problems and... 597 00:35:15,323 --> 00:35:16,199 he did a lot for me. 598 00:35:16,241 --> 00:35:19,119 He made sure I had a place to live, 599 00:35:19,202 --> 00:35:22,914 he paid for everything, and in return, I made him a lot of money, you know. 600 00:35:27,252 --> 00:35:29,295 [Shaun] With Schooly at my side 601 00:35:29,379 --> 00:35:32,674 I was at the top of a multimillion-dollar monopoly. 602 00:35:32,757 --> 00:35:36,052 But eventually all monopolies attract competition. 603 00:35:44,185 --> 00:35:47,856 [Gerard] English Shaun was selling the finest. 604 00:35:47,897 --> 00:35:52,235 This guy's gonna knock us outta business 'cause we can't even compete with him anymore. 605 00:35:52,318 --> 00:35:55,113 So, to take out English Shaun's empire 606 00:35:55,196 --> 00:35:57,407 I needed to step-up our supply. 607 00:35:59,242 --> 00:36:02,746 Somehow we got on the road and go back and forth to New York. 608 00:36:04,414 --> 00:36:06,249 That was just picking up 50,000 pills. 609 00:36:08,752 --> 00:36:10,837 We were selling these things so quick. 610 00:36:12,047 --> 00:36:13,882 I had different looking pills than Shaun's, 611 00:36:13,923 --> 00:36:16,301 they were red and white, they were everywhere. 612 00:36:16,384 --> 00:36:18,595 And everyone knew they were coming from me. 613 00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:24,934 Shaun had to be feeling the pressure. 614 00:36:31,066 --> 00:36:34,527 [Shaun] We started noticing a new flood of colored pills hitting the market. 615 00:36:36,279 --> 00:36:39,157 I knew we needed to step-up our game. 616 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:42,702 So, I started flying Schooly directly to LA to ramp up our buys. 617 00:36:43,787 --> 00:36:45,789 Pre-9/11 security was easy. 618 00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:50,001 No dogs, no Homeland Security. 619 00:36:50,085 --> 00:36:53,630 You could walk from your car to the gate without going through any security. 620 00:36:54,547 --> 00:36:56,424 But in LA, any bag that you have 621 00:36:56,466 --> 00:36:58,635 you have to send through the X-ray machine. 622 00:36:58,718 --> 00:37:00,970 I'm trying to figure out a new way every time 623 00:37:01,054 --> 00:37:03,348 to get these pills back on the plane with me. 624 00:37:03,431 --> 00:37:05,725 Nobody can see anything taped to your legs 625 00:37:05,809 --> 00:37:09,521 when you're wearing huge JNCO jeans going through security. 626 00:37:09,604 --> 00:37:13,483 I could have probably taped a German shepherd [chuckling] to my legs and got through. 627 00:37:14,984 --> 00:37:17,153 I got really nervous all the time 628 00:37:17,237 --> 00:37:20,824 'cause I didn't know if this was gonna be the time that I go to jail or not. 629 00:37:22,909 --> 00:37:24,744 But nothing ever happened. 630 00:37:24,828 --> 00:37:27,956 I had a stack of plane tickets like this. 631 00:37:27,997 --> 00:37:32,669 I don't know how many times I went to LA, probably 75-80 times. 632 00:37:35,922 --> 00:37:38,383 [reporter] Ecstasy, the euphoric happy pills, 633 00:37:38,466 --> 00:37:41,094 are the dynamic fuel that propel all-night rave parties 634 00:37:41,177 --> 00:37:43,888 to go on, and on, and on. 635 00:37:43,972 --> 00:37:49,936 Over the last two years America has seen a 71% increase in teen ecstasy use. 636 00:37:50,020 --> 00:37:53,815 [reporter] Researchers are now linking ecstasy to fatal high blood pressure, 637 00:37:53,857 --> 00:37:57,152 killer kidney trouble, and even deadly heart failure. 638 00:37:57,193 --> 00:38:01,823 It's dangerous, it's addictive, it's deadly, and it needs to stop. 639 00:38:06,828 --> 00:38:12,167 I didn't know anything about ecstasy until I got told that I was gonna supervise 640 00:38:12,208 --> 00:38:14,252 a teenage enforcement squad 641 00:38:14,336 --> 00:38:16,546 to try to lower the teenage drug use 642 00:38:16,629 --> 00:38:18,506 in the Phoenix metropolitan area. 643 00:38:18,548 --> 00:38:21,009 We actually inserted detectives in high schools 644 00:38:21,051 --> 00:38:23,636 and did the whole 21 Jump Street thing. 645 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:25,972 Not knowing where it was gonna take us. 646 00:38:26,056 --> 00:38:29,809 That's when we first found out about this ecstasy-rave-club-culture. 647 00:38:33,646 --> 00:38:36,232 I always listened to '80s rock. 648 00:38:36,316 --> 00:38:39,611 Some harder stuff like AC/DC, and Led Zeppelin, 649 00:38:39,694 --> 00:38:42,197 and I'm from New Jersey, so of course Bruce Springsteen. 650 00:38:43,907 --> 00:38:47,577 But this club, rave scene was not that, I can tell ya. 651 00:38:50,038 --> 00:38:53,500 During our surveillance, I remember me parked outside one of the raves. 652 00:38:55,085 --> 00:38:59,964 I just remember seeing the crazy lights, 653 00:39:00,048 --> 00:39:04,803 and the thumping of that techno music just vibrating our whole car. 654 00:39:04,886 --> 00:39:08,223 And we were like, "What in the heck did we get ourselves into?" 655 00:39:10,892 --> 00:39:13,603 I think we were one of the first units in the country 656 00:39:13,687 --> 00:39:18,066 that actually proactively went into the raves and started making buys. 657 00:39:18,108 --> 00:39:21,403 Matt Shay's probably one of the best undercover officers I've seen. 658 00:39:22,237 --> 00:39:23,655 I was just in my mid-twenties. 659 00:39:23,738 --> 00:39:26,783 We had a lot of fun going out and making undercover buys. 660 00:39:26,866 --> 00:39:29,452 Rose was on the same squad, 661 00:39:29,536 --> 00:39:32,789 she's prefect for the part, this beautiful, young, narc. 662 00:39:32,872 --> 00:39:36,960 Super easy for her to get in with a crowd, she fit right in. 663 00:39:37,043 --> 00:39:39,879 As a young child I wanted to be a Charlie's Angel, 664 00:39:39,963 --> 00:39:42,882 and so it was fun being somebody else. 665 00:39:43,591 --> 00:39:45,427 Did my hair up goofy like. 666 00:39:45,468 --> 00:39:47,095 Put some, you know, pink in there. 667 00:39:47,137 --> 00:39:50,557 And just kinda made ourselves free-loving, I guess, you could say. 668 00:39:52,976 --> 00:39:56,813 During the investigation I worked undercover at The Ice House. 669 00:40:00,650 --> 00:40:03,278 When I came in I was just shocked. 670 00:40:04,279 --> 00:40:08,241 It was just super-crazy loud. 671 00:40:08,324 --> 00:40:11,494 Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump. Over and over again. 672 00:40:14,164 --> 00:40:16,708 'Cause they were using ecstasy. 673 00:40:16,791 --> 00:40:20,712 A lot of them were underage 17, 18, 19 year olds. 674 00:40:20,795 --> 00:40:22,130 Pretty much as soon as we walked in 675 00:40:22,172 --> 00:40:26,301 people started coming over and asking, do we want anything. 676 00:40:26,343 --> 00:40:28,136 And we just started making buys. 677 00:40:28,178 --> 00:40:29,846 [James] We didn't make arrests right away. 678 00:40:29,929 --> 00:40:32,015 One guy would come to a rave with 1,000 pills 679 00:40:33,016 --> 00:40:34,809 and put 'em in the hands of 20 kids 680 00:40:34,851 --> 00:40:36,728 and then let them go out and sell. 681 00:40:36,811 --> 00:40:40,106 So, we were trying to identify the next level up. 682 00:40:40,190 --> 00:40:43,610 [Rose] When we started asking around about who was behind the drugs, 683 00:40:43,693 --> 00:40:46,696 the same guy kept coming up over and over again. 684 00:40:49,491 --> 00:40:51,659 And that was English Shaun. 685 00:40:51,701 --> 00:40:53,870 [Matthew] He was a major supplier of ecstasy. 686 00:40:53,953 --> 00:40:56,373 He was an entrepreneur in drug dealing, right? 687 00:40:56,456 --> 00:40:58,291 He provided the whole package. 688 00:40:58,375 --> 00:41:00,919 And hand over fist, he made a ton of money. 689 00:41:01,002 --> 00:41:05,632 But he's not the only guy that sells ecstasy in this town. 690 00:41:05,715 --> 00:41:08,677 [Rose] During the investigation we found out there was another seller 691 00:41:08,718 --> 00:41:12,138 infringing on English Shaun. 692 00:41:12,222 --> 00:41:14,683 [James] And that's how we ended up bouncing into Mike Papa. 693 00:41:15,725 --> 00:41:17,894 Mike Papa was involved in a variety of crimes, 694 00:41:17,977 --> 00:41:19,771 and one of those crimes is selling drugs 695 00:41:19,854 --> 00:41:21,898 in the metro Phoenix area. 696 00:41:21,981 --> 00:41:25,485 [James] So, when we started looking at Mike Papa we were in a whole different league. 697 00:41:25,568 --> 00:41:26,736 You know, they didn't go to raves, 698 00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:29,698 they didn't go to that lower-end street level stuff. 699 00:41:29,739 --> 00:41:33,243 They were in the high-end clubs in Scottsdale. 700 00:41:33,326 --> 00:41:37,580 [Rose] He was more about money, and looks, and being important. 701 00:41:37,664 --> 00:41:41,418 He was not about partying and looking like a raver. 702 00:41:52,929 --> 00:41:55,682 [James] That was a phone call that we captured 703 00:41:55,765 --> 00:41:58,309 on our wire tap form Mike Papa's phone. 704 00:41:58,393 --> 00:42:01,479 That call was significant because Mike Papa's phone 705 00:42:01,563 --> 00:42:04,107 was registered back to Marathon Construction. 706 00:42:05,942 --> 00:42:10,905 So, another detective and I went to that location to do some surveillance. 707 00:42:12,699 --> 00:42:14,242 I was looking through binoculars 708 00:42:14,909 --> 00:42:16,244 and I was like, "Oh, my God! 709 00:42:17,245 --> 00:42:18,538 I can't believe it. 710 00:42:19,706 --> 00:42:21,124 It's Sammy 'The Bull' Gravano." 711 00:42:49,319 --> 00:42:50,570 [Matthew] That's fantastic, yeah. 712 00:42:50,653 --> 00:42:52,822 Bring him on in Phoenix and drop him down on top of us 713 00:42:52,906 --> 00:42:54,324 and then leave him alone. That's a great idea. 714 00:42:55,992 --> 00:42:57,160 The investigators thought, 715 00:42:57,202 --> 00:42:59,454 "All right, if Sammy's gonna come and play in our sandbox 716 00:42:59,496 --> 00:43:00,455 then we're gonna get him dirty." 717 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,508 [Gerard] I'm gonna tell ya a story about Dad. 718 00:43:11,591 --> 00:43:15,887 My father, he never sold drugs his entire life in the streets. 719 00:43:15,929 --> 00:43:18,431 And he could've made millions of dollars selling drugs. 720 00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:20,433 He never did it. 721 00:43:20,517 --> 00:43:24,145 When I was in a powerhouse, in New York, 722 00:43:24,229 --> 00:43:28,566 drugs were coming in, heroin, I was never involved. 723 00:43:28,608 --> 00:43:31,277 I didn't want that kinda heat or those kinda people. 724 00:43:33,279 --> 00:43:35,115 [Gerard] Look, now his son is selling drugs. 725 00:43:35,198 --> 00:43:39,244 Obviously, he knew. He stayed away a little bit. 726 00:43:39,285 --> 00:43:42,372 I guess he was probably trying to think how he could approach 727 00:43:42,455 --> 00:43:47,210 the situation in a different way to get me to stop. 728 00:43:49,379 --> 00:43:52,048 And then, one day, he came to me and said, 729 00:43:52,132 --> 00:43:55,301 "Hey, how can I help you get outta this whole thing?" 730 00:43:55,385 --> 00:43:59,180 And I didn't want him going to New York anymore. 731 00:43:59,264 --> 00:44:02,684 [Gerard] I said, "Okay, you want us out of this, 732 00:44:02,767 --> 00:44:06,479 we need to make about three or four big buys, we need cash." 733 00:44:08,648 --> 00:44:11,526 We needed a $150,000 per buy. 734 00:44:11,609 --> 00:44:15,238 I would've never accepted that back in Staten Island. 735 00:44:15,321 --> 00:44:19,909 But I became a little more liberal than I normally was. 736 00:44:19,993 --> 00:44:22,537 I didn't wanna bully him or do anything like that. 737 00:44:22,620 --> 00:44:25,957 I wanted him to understand that for himself to wanna pull away. 738 00:44:25,999 --> 00:44:27,250 So, I said, "Listen. 739 00:44:28,501 --> 00:44:31,504 if I fund four deals, 740 00:44:32,339 --> 00:44:33,798 four big deals, 741 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,968 would you give me your word that you guys would quit? 742 00:44:37,844 --> 00:44:39,471 You'd have a pocket full of money 743 00:44:39,512 --> 00:44:42,515 and then come with me in a legitimate businesses." 744 00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:45,060 [Gerard] He explained that there's heat that comes with this, 745 00:44:45,143 --> 00:44:47,020 there's long prison sentences. 746 00:44:47,103 --> 00:44:49,439 You can't do this for a long period of time. 747 00:44:49,522 --> 00:44:52,359 So, four deals and then you're done. 748 00:44:53,276 --> 00:44:56,279 But I want interest on my money. 749 00:44:56,363 --> 00:44:58,365 Like, I would lend it out as a gangster. 750 00:44:58,448 --> 00:45:01,117 Yeah, of course my father was gonna take his cut off of it. 751 00:45:01,201 --> 00:45:03,870 My father's still who he is. He's still Sammy "The Bull." 752 00:45:06,873 --> 00:45:08,375 [Gerard] And we all sat there and agreed. 753 00:45:09,167 --> 00:45:12,045 And I funded four deals. 754 00:45:15,382 --> 00:45:17,050 [Gerard] With my father's money, 755 00:45:17,133 --> 00:45:20,136 me and Mike can now muscle into Shaun's LA connection. 756 00:45:23,890 --> 00:45:25,934 [Shaun] Gerard Gravano and Mike Papa 757 00:45:26,017 --> 00:45:28,895 expanded their source from New York to LA. 758 00:45:28,978 --> 00:45:31,147 So, I did something radical. 759 00:45:31,231 --> 00:45:34,025 I'm thinking, "We need to take this to Holland." 760 00:45:35,318 --> 00:45:36,861 [reporter] Amsterdam is a lesser-known side 761 00:45:36,903 --> 00:45:39,656 the tourist guides tend to omit. 762 00:45:39,739 --> 00:45:44,119 Over 90% of ecstasy is manufactured in Holland. 763 00:45:44,202 --> 00:45:47,831 Shaun started to look to Amsterdam to find pills. 764 00:45:47,914 --> 00:45:49,416 And they were less than half the price, 765 00:45:49,499 --> 00:45:53,628 they were $2 or $3 a pill versus $8.50 a pill. 766 00:45:53,712 --> 00:45:56,089 Somebody just had to fly over there and get 'em. 767 00:45:58,842 --> 00:46:01,302 [Shaun] We had people fly over to Holland, 768 00:46:01,386 --> 00:46:02,721 picked up the pills, 769 00:46:04,597 --> 00:46:06,766 flew to Mexico City, 770 00:46:06,850 --> 00:46:10,854 and brought in the pills over the Arizona border from Mexico. 771 00:46:13,064 --> 00:46:17,819 Shipment sizes increased from the 5,000 to 10,000 I could get out of LA 772 00:46:17,902 --> 00:46:23,658 up to 10s of thousands of pills per load. 773 00:46:23,742 --> 00:46:30,206 The most we brought in was 40,000 pills stacked in computer towers. 774 00:46:30,290 --> 00:46:34,336 So, you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars profit. 775 00:46:34,419 --> 00:46:37,756 In the beginning, we were wrapping the money, it was going into sports bags. 776 00:46:37,797 --> 00:46:40,258 But the money started coming in so fast 777 00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:42,969 I had to figure out strategies to launder it. 778 00:46:45,138 --> 00:46:46,848 To maximize my profits, 779 00:46:46,931 --> 00:46:50,268 I drew on all of the knowledge I'd gleaned 780 00:46:50,310 --> 00:46:52,562 from my business studies education. 781 00:46:53,980 --> 00:46:59,069 I flew people from the UK, opened bank accounts in their names, 782 00:46:59,152 --> 00:47:01,738 opened stock market accounts in their names. 783 00:47:01,821 --> 00:47:04,115 And once that money went into that account 784 00:47:04,157 --> 00:47:08,745 it then went into a spider's web of various accounts 785 00:47:09,329 --> 00:47:10,580 in the stock market. 786 00:47:12,457 --> 00:47:15,293 It's been said that I ultimately ended up 787 00:47:15,335 --> 00:47:18,380 with a case of gangster capitalism. 788 00:47:18,463 --> 00:47:20,757 I would never consider myself a gangster. 789 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,928 I would say that I was a business graduate nerd 790 00:47:25,011 --> 00:47:28,264 that had a huge case of gangsteritis. 791 00:47:28,348 --> 00:47:29,849 And gangsteritis 792 00:47:30,767 --> 00:47:33,186 means that I've watched too many movies 793 00:47:33,269 --> 00:47:37,482 and TV programs like Miami Vice and Scarface. 794 00:47:37,524 --> 00:47:40,610 I was attracted to the adrenaline, and the buzz, 795 00:47:40,694 --> 00:47:42,987 and the glamorization of that world. 796 00:47:44,948 --> 00:47:47,325 Myself and my friends would joke 797 00:47:47,367 --> 00:47:49,369 we're living like characters out of a movie. 798 00:47:49,452 --> 00:47:51,746 Blah, blah, blah, we'll never get caught. 799 00:47:51,830 --> 00:47:54,290 We had all of these grandiose delusions. 800 00:47:56,459 --> 00:48:00,005 [reporter] While illegal drug laboratories persist in producing ecstasy 801 00:48:00,046 --> 00:48:03,133 Congress has recently enforced stringent new prison sentences 802 00:48:03,216 --> 00:48:05,260 for those engaged in trafficking drugs. 803 00:48:05,343 --> 00:48:08,388 There's no doubt about where these raves are. 804 00:48:09,222 --> 00:48:10,223 In the middle of the desert. 805 00:48:10,890 --> 00:48:12,726 Arrest the promoter. 806 00:48:15,353 --> 00:48:18,815 [James] We had two investigations going on at the same time. 807 00:48:18,898 --> 00:48:21,735 And then when Sammy "The Bull" popped up during a surveillance 808 00:48:21,818 --> 00:48:24,237 the Gravano investigation became our main focus. 809 00:48:25,905 --> 00:48:27,907 Once we knew that Marathon Construction 810 00:48:27,991 --> 00:48:30,076 was associated with Sammy "The Bull" Gravano 811 00:48:31,411 --> 00:48:33,455 we went out there, 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, 812 00:48:33,538 --> 00:48:36,041 and break into his office and install some art bugs. 813 00:48:39,919 --> 00:48:40,879 [phone ringing] 814 00:48:50,930 --> 00:48:53,391 [James] As our investigation advanced, 815 00:48:53,433 --> 00:48:56,603 we started learning what their daily habits were 816 00:48:56,686 --> 00:48:58,813 and some of the important locations. 817 00:48:58,897 --> 00:49:03,985 Marathon Construction, the second being Sammy "The Bull's" apartment. 818 00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:07,238 And then, Uncle Sal's Restaurant, which is in Scottsdale. 819 00:49:08,448 --> 00:49:10,325 They would do drug deals 820 00:49:10,408 --> 00:49:13,995 either in the front parking lot or the back parking lot. 821 00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:16,998 It was an excellent place for us to be able to identify 822 00:49:17,082 --> 00:49:20,710 different members of the organization interacting with each other. 823 00:49:20,794 --> 00:49:24,214 It was right out of a movie about mobsters, quite honestly, right? 824 00:49:24,297 --> 00:49:25,507 They would all come in, 825 00:49:25,590 --> 00:49:28,093 shake hands, and have a great time. 826 00:49:28,134 --> 00:49:31,596 Sit in the back and allegedly discuss business and whatever else. 827 00:49:31,638 --> 00:49:32,931 [operatic music playing] 828 00:49:36,434 --> 00:49:39,145 [Gerard] At this time, our sales dropped dramatically. 829 00:49:39,229 --> 00:49:41,981 We were now only selling 10,000 pills a week. 830 00:49:42,065 --> 00:49:47,112 And I knew English Shaun was selling up to 140,000 a week. 831 00:49:47,153 --> 00:49:50,573 I knew a couple of his dealers and I called them in. 832 00:49:50,657 --> 00:49:52,450 We told 'em, "Tell English Shaun 833 00:49:53,785 --> 00:49:55,286 Arizona is ours. 834 00:49:56,996 --> 00:49:59,874 Every pill he sells from here on out 835 00:49:59,958 --> 00:50:03,962 he needs to pay us 50% on every pill he fucking sells." 836 00:50:06,172 --> 00:50:08,299 So, they went and brought that message to him. 837 00:50:14,848 --> 00:50:18,101 [Shaun] I heard that Gerard and Papa were threatening to tax my sales. 838 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,063 I had to take this threat seriously 839 00:50:22,147 --> 00:50:24,941 because his operation was being funded by none other than... 840 00:50:25,942 --> 00:50:27,610 Sammy "The Bull" Gravano. 841 00:50:27,694 --> 00:50:30,989 I'm thinking, "What the hell is going on here?" I couldn't believe it. 842 00:50:35,702 --> 00:50:38,288 In my mind, I'm running the calculation. 843 00:50:39,289 --> 00:50:41,875 Sammy "The Bull," he's wacked a bunch of people, 844 00:50:42,959 --> 00:50:44,669 but he's no longer with the mafia. 845 00:50:47,213 --> 00:50:50,884 I wasn't going to backdown, but I knew I needed to increase my security. 846 00:50:53,386 --> 00:50:58,141 This picture is myself and Wild Man, my best friend from childhood. 847 00:50:58,224 --> 00:51:01,019 Wild Man always had my back. He would take a bullet for me. 848 00:51:02,354 --> 00:51:03,813 And as crazy as it sounds, 849 00:51:03,897 --> 00:51:05,440 growing up, Wild Man reminded me 850 00:51:05,523 --> 00:51:07,817 of a character from one of my Marvel Comics. 851 00:51:10,403 --> 00:51:16,534 This maniac that's got these massive muscles and brute force strength, 852 00:51:16,576 --> 00:51:20,747 who's about to crush Ironman's head in with this rock 853 00:51:21,581 --> 00:51:23,333 symbolizes Wild Man. 854 00:51:26,419 --> 00:51:28,838 So, I flew Wild Man from England to Phoenix. 855 00:51:32,717 --> 00:51:36,012 [Schooly] He fit that role, it worked out so well. 856 00:51:36,096 --> 00:51:38,473 You owed money, Wild Man would go collect. 857 00:51:38,556 --> 00:51:39,599 If there was a problem 858 00:51:39,683 --> 00:51:41,267 or somebody was threatening you, 859 00:51:41,351 --> 00:51:42,769 you brought Wild Man with you. 860 00:51:42,852 --> 00:51:44,604 I've seen him... 861 00:51:44,688 --> 00:51:47,232 hit people and knock 'em five feet into a refrigerator. 862 00:51:47,273 --> 00:51:48,900 I mean, he was a big 863 00:51:49,609 --> 00:51:50,735 brick shithouse. 864 00:51:52,529 --> 00:51:55,073 [Shaun] Now, we had a protective shield. 865 00:51:55,115 --> 00:51:57,450 But I was wondering how long the peace would last. 866 00:52:04,457 --> 00:52:06,042 [Schooly] I was at a club one night, 867 00:52:08,253 --> 00:52:10,296 two kids came up to buy pills. 868 00:52:11,464 --> 00:52:13,633 Went to the bathroom to make the deal. 869 00:52:16,636 --> 00:52:20,056 Stuck my hand in my pocket to get the pills and next thing I know... 870 00:52:22,225 --> 00:52:23,643 I'm lying on the floor. 871 00:52:24,728 --> 00:52:27,230 And I'm like, "What the fuck just happened?" 872 00:52:28,815 --> 00:52:29,733 I was knocked out. 873 00:52:30,483 --> 00:52:33,236 Two of 'em sucker punched me. 874 00:52:33,319 --> 00:52:37,866 Checked my pockets, my money was gone, my pills were gone. 875 00:52:37,949 --> 00:52:40,326 I'm like, "Ah, hell no. This is some bullshit." 876 00:52:43,163 --> 00:52:44,748 [Shaun] When information came in 877 00:52:44,831 --> 00:52:49,544 that some of the Gravano people linked to the attack on Schooly were our property 878 00:52:49,627 --> 00:52:53,840 Wild Man jumped up and said, "Let's go over there right away. 879 00:52:53,923 --> 00:52:56,634 Nobody fucking rips the English off!" 880 00:53:01,181 --> 00:53:04,309 Four car loads showed up to this house, 12 o'clock at night. 881 00:53:05,935 --> 00:53:08,646 [Shaun] There was a bunch of us armed to the teeth. 882 00:53:08,688 --> 00:53:11,691 [Schooly] One person knocked on the door, soon as they opened the door 883 00:53:12,359 --> 00:53:14,235 everybody in the house. 884 00:53:14,319 --> 00:53:16,988 [Shaun] So, we're charging into this house. 885 00:53:17,614 --> 00:53:18,865 Guns drawn. 886 00:53:20,283 --> 00:53:22,660 It's almost like your brain goes in slow-motion. 887 00:53:25,288 --> 00:53:28,875 And I can hear Wild Man yelling, "Don't fucking move!" 888 00:53:30,502 --> 00:53:31,711 It's like a fucking movie. 889 00:53:33,672 --> 00:53:37,050 We went through every room. We took everything outta that house. 890 00:53:37,133 --> 00:53:41,763 PlayStations, VCRs, TVs, shoes. 891 00:53:41,846 --> 00:53:45,850 I mean, if it was worth $5 it came outta that house into somebody's car, 892 00:53:45,892 --> 00:53:47,227 we cleaned that house out. 893 00:53:47,310 --> 00:53:49,688 We didn't get the drugs back, but we got everything they owned. 894 00:53:51,815 --> 00:53:53,858 [Shaun] And we just took off into the night after that. 895 00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:03,451 When I found out, my first reaction was anger and rage. 896 00:54:03,535 --> 00:54:06,246 And everyone's looking at me, like, "What are you gonna do?" 897 00:54:08,206 --> 00:54:10,750 The way I grew up, this is how people get killed. 898 00:54:11,334 --> 00:54:12,210 I said, "Okay." 899 00:54:12,293 --> 00:54:14,462 I put the word out there to everyone I knew, 900 00:54:14,546 --> 00:54:18,008 the second someone sees English Shaun to call us. 901 00:54:18,091 --> 00:54:20,593 I need to know where he's at, I need to find him. 902 00:54:24,848 --> 00:54:28,601 I can't be disrespected. Everyone was watching, everyone. 903 00:54:29,769 --> 00:54:32,147 So, one night I got a phone call 904 00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:37,152 telling me that English Shaun was at the Crowbar. 905 00:54:37,235 --> 00:54:41,197 Four, five of us got in the car, we headed down to the Crowbar. 906 00:54:41,281 --> 00:54:45,285 I had two or three guns on me and I had a shovel in the back of my car. 907 00:54:45,368 --> 00:54:49,539 Plan was to walk up to him, choke him out, put him to sleep, 908 00:54:49,622 --> 00:54:52,167 carry him out, put him in the car. 909 00:54:52,250 --> 00:54:55,086 I was prepare to kill him and bury him in the desert. 910 00:55:00,884 --> 00:55:03,094 [Gerard] We pull right up to the Crowbar. 911 00:55:06,848 --> 00:55:08,266 We all walked in, 912 00:55:09,893 --> 00:55:12,604 place was crowed, people dancing. 913 00:55:14,356 --> 00:55:16,274 We were looking for English Shaun. 914 00:55:27,702 --> 00:55:28,787 But I couldn't find him. 915 00:55:30,580 --> 00:55:31,539 He was gone. 916 00:55:39,089 --> 00:55:41,925 [Shaun] It's downhill from there, it just gets more and more dangerous. 917 00:55:43,968 --> 00:55:47,555 I no longer felt safe living in the Phoenix area. 918 00:55:48,598 --> 00:55:50,725 [Schooly] Everybody got real protected. 919 00:55:50,809 --> 00:55:52,560 And everybody's getting violent 920 00:55:52,644 --> 00:55:55,230 and it's not raving, it's not fun anymore. 921 00:55:55,313 --> 00:55:56,981 Now it's... 922 00:55:57,065 --> 00:55:59,275 who's gonna get shot? Who's gonna get kidnapped? 923 00:55:59,317 --> 00:56:02,946 Like, who's gonna get robbed? Like... And this is an everyday thing. 924 00:56:05,281 --> 00:56:06,825 Everything was falling apart. 925 00:56:08,618 --> 00:56:12,997 And then, I was told that Sammy "The Bull" had a hit out on me. 926 00:56:13,081 --> 00:56:17,502 They were offering $10,000 for my head on a silver platter. 927 00:56:17,585 --> 00:56:21,339 Now, I was having dreams at night of people bursting through the door, 928 00:56:23,174 --> 00:56:26,344 putting a gun to my face, taking me out to the desert. 929 00:56:29,431 --> 00:56:32,517 I was in a living hell. 930 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:36,521 I was doing more drugs and the side effects were rising in the background. 931 00:56:37,022 --> 00:56:37,856 Paranoia, 932 00:56:39,524 --> 00:56:43,361 the malnourishment, the sleepless nights, 933 00:56:44,696 --> 00:56:47,032 the mental deterioration. 934 00:56:48,616 --> 00:56:51,494 Everything just seemed to go down all at the same time, 935 00:56:51,536 --> 00:56:55,457 my organization and my psychology. 936 00:56:55,540 --> 00:56:59,127 [Schooly] And now Gravano's were flooding the market with 1,000s of pills, 937 00:56:59,210 --> 00:57:01,212 so our business dried up. 938 00:57:01,296 --> 00:57:03,548 Like, the money wasn't there anymore. 939 00:57:03,631 --> 00:57:06,634 They took all the market. They killed our empire. 940 00:57:20,065 --> 00:57:23,943 [Rose] We knew that Mike Papa and Gerard pushed English Shaun out. 941 00:57:24,027 --> 00:57:29,199 And Gerard became the king of ecstasy with Sammy as the money behind it. 942 00:57:30,867 --> 00:57:32,827 [James] During our Papa and Gravano wiretap 943 00:57:32,911 --> 00:57:34,537 we were getting circumstantial stuff 944 00:57:34,579 --> 00:57:37,165 through Gerard's phone, Mike Papa's phone. 945 00:57:38,249 --> 00:57:40,251 And then, we had a breakthrough. 946 00:57:47,759 --> 00:57:51,763 [James] Mike Papa was negotiating an ecstasy deal with a supplier in LA. 947 00:57:59,437 --> 00:58:04,609 [James] The deal was for around $140,000 or 25,000 ecstasy pills. 948 00:58:13,284 --> 00:58:16,538 [James] The next day, when the confirmation was made to meet the courier 949 00:58:16,621 --> 00:58:19,290 we followed Mike Papa to a parking garage. 950 00:58:20,458 --> 00:58:23,712 This meeting and purchase with the supplier by Papa 951 00:58:23,795 --> 00:58:26,172 was gonna be monumental in our case. 952 00:58:26,256 --> 00:58:28,800 We're gonna get one shot at this and we need to make it happen. 953 00:58:31,469 --> 00:58:33,888 The courier had the red duffle bag with the pills. 954 00:58:33,972 --> 00:58:36,725 We watched those drugs go from the courier to Papa. 955 00:58:38,226 --> 00:58:41,187 And then, the courier getting out of Mike Papa's car 956 00:58:41,271 --> 00:58:44,983 with the bag full of the $140,000. 957 00:58:46,484 --> 00:58:47,944 You know, in my head I'm thinking, 958 00:58:47,986 --> 00:58:50,947 "Okay, we got Papa, the courier, 959 00:58:50,989 --> 00:58:53,533 locked down from that deal in the conspiracy. 960 00:58:53,616 --> 00:58:55,952 Let's see who we get next." 961 00:58:55,994 --> 00:58:59,164 After the meeting, we continually tracked Mike Papa. 962 00:59:00,582 --> 00:59:04,336 We were hoping that he would go back to where Sammy Gravano was. 963 00:59:05,462 --> 00:59:07,547 And that's exactly what he did. 964 00:59:07,630 --> 00:59:10,300 We knew he had the red duffle bag with the pills. 965 00:59:10,342 --> 00:59:14,512 And we saw him go into Marathon Construction. 966 00:59:14,596 --> 00:59:16,181 There was another plus that, 967 00:59:16,264 --> 00:59:21,019 "Hey, we're getting closer to getting Sammy wrapped up in this whole conspiracy." 968 00:59:25,774 --> 00:59:28,109 Ironically enough, it was Sammy's mistake 969 00:59:28,193 --> 00:59:31,613 that really solidified everything and did him in. 970 00:59:31,696 --> 00:59:34,282 This call was significant because it showed that Sammy 971 00:59:34,366 --> 00:59:39,079 was an active participant in financing the ecstasy drug deals. 972 00:59:39,162 --> 00:59:41,998 When he had an argument with Debra, his ex-wife. 973 00:59:52,801 --> 00:59:56,096 [James] Sammy made a miscount on the next $70,000 deal 974 00:59:56,179 --> 01:00:00,975 and he called Debbie and he said, "Hey, I'm counting it, it's short." 975 01:00:05,814 --> 01:00:08,608 She said, "It shouldn't be. You know, I counted it myself. 976 01:00:08,692 --> 01:00:11,695 Gave it to your daughter, Karen. She brought it to ya." 977 01:00:11,736 --> 01:00:13,822 And, you know, at the same time 978 01:00:13,905 --> 01:00:18,034 we have the hardwired bug in Marathon hearing the money counter running. 979 01:00:19,494 --> 01:00:23,832 Continuous slapping of the money sorting through. 980 01:00:23,915 --> 01:00:28,586 He ends up counting it again and the recount, you know, he counts it right. 981 01:00:34,884 --> 01:00:39,014 [James] Sammy making that miscount and associating with his family on the phone 982 01:00:40,098 --> 01:00:42,308 was pivotal in our case. 983 01:00:42,392 --> 01:00:48,440 His miscount really solidified that he was financing the purchase of the ecstasy. 984 01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:53,903 But shortly after that call 985 01:00:55,363 --> 01:00:59,868 he heard an electric screwdriver that we felt was very close to our bug. 986 01:00:59,951 --> 01:01:00,952 [screwdriver whirring] 987 01:01:03,121 --> 01:01:05,623 Right after the stop of the electric screwdriver 988 01:01:06,583 --> 01:01:08,335 you could hear Sammy get agitated 989 01:01:08,418 --> 01:01:10,462 and then start singing really loud in Italian. 990 01:01:11,129 --> 01:01:12,130 [Sammy singing] 991 01:01:13,590 --> 01:01:15,133 [James] And then, walk out the back door. 992 01:01:21,473 --> 01:01:25,685 [Karen] We were all in the office and my father had called us outside. 993 01:01:25,769 --> 01:01:28,688 We went in the back of the Marathon Construction office and he said, 994 01:01:28,772 --> 01:01:29,773 "Something is going on. 995 01:01:29,814 --> 01:01:31,608 I feel it, there's a presence here. 996 01:01:31,649 --> 01:01:33,943 I don't know if it's the mob from New York, 997 01:01:33,985 --> 01:01:35,904 I don't know if cops are following, 998 01:01:35,987 --> 01:01:38,573 but whatever you guys have, if you have anything in the house, 999 01:01:38,656 --> 01:01:40,867 anything's going on, make sure it's done. 1000 01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:43,870 I don't want it around me, I don't want it around any of us." 1001 01:01:43,953 --> 01:01:45,288 And everyone agreed. 1002 01:01:57,467 --> 01:01:59,344 [Sammy] I was in bed. 1003 01:01:59,427 --> 01:02:02,430 And I had a little dog, he was 6-pounds. 1004 01:02:02,514 --> 01:02:06,601 He'd sleep with me in the bed, right between my legs, hanging out. 1005 01:02:06,685 --> 01:02:08,019 And I hear him growling. 1006 01:02:08,103 --> 01:02:10,772 Hair's up on his back and he's growling. 1007 01:02:10,855 --> 01:02:12,148 [dog barking] 1008 01:02:12,190 --> 01:02:15,026 So, right next to the bed I had the .357 Magnum. 1009 01:02:16,528 --> 01:02:17,362 I picked it up, 1010 01:02:18,988 --> 01:02:21,324 I moved the blinds a little bit, 1011 01:02:21,366 --> 01:02:23,618 and when I moved the blinds... 1012 01:02:24,786 --> 01:02:26,830 Police! On the ground! 1013 01:02:26,871 --> 01:02:29,541 [Sammy] ... SWAT teams came crashing in. 1014 01:02:31,626 --> 01:02:34,462 Kicked, punched, banged down to the ground. 1015 01:02:37,882 --> 01:02:42,345 I could see out of the corner of my eye the dog was fucking flipping out. 1016 01:02:42,387 --> 01:02:43,388 [dog barking] 1017 01:02:46,891 --> 01:02:48,935 I understand there was 200 cops, 1018 01:02:49,019 --> 01:02:52,731 helicopters, armored vehicles to arrest me. 1019 01:02:54,232 --> 01:02:55,525 By myself. 1020 01:02:55,608 --> 01:02:58,486 When they opened the door I had put the gun down, I had nothing. 1021 01:02:59,237 --> 01:03:00,822 But underwear. 1022 01:03:00,905 --> 01:03:02,490 I don't know what they thought I was, 1023 01:03:02,574 --> 01:03:05,410 but I think it was more of a show. 1024 01:03:12,500 --> 01:03:14,669 [James] After we arrested Sammy "The Bull" Gravano 1025 01:03:14,753 --> 01:03:16,838 we got him down to our processing center 1026 01:03:16,921 --> 01:03:19,382 and he immediately started 1027 01:03:19,466 --> 01:03:21,926 scanning all the paperwork on the desk. 1028 01:03:22,010 --> 01:03:25,597 Trying to evaluate, you know, how bad it is or what's going on. 1029 01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,058 So, I started telling everybody, "Hey, flip the papers over." 1030 01:03:28,141 --> 01:03:31,478 He looked up at me right then and said, "So, you're running this whole show?" 1031 01:03:32,187 --> 01:03:33,897 And I think my reply was, 1032 01:03:33,980 --> 01:03:35,690 "No. I'm just a working man like you, Sammy." 1033 01:03:47,202 --> 01:03:50,455 When they took me in I walked passed cages. 1034 01:03:51,873 --> 01:03:53,958 In one cage I saw my son, 1035 01:03:55,043 --> 01:03:56,211 I saw my daughter, 1036 01:03:57,212 --> 01:03:58,880 I saw my ex-wife. 1037 01:04:00,215 --> 01:04:02,884 I see my whole family in different cages. 1038 01:04:02,967 --> 01:04:04,135 It broke my heart. 1039 01:04:07,389 --> 01:04:08,890 It really did, it broke my heart. 1040 01:04:12,644 --> 01:04:14,729 My official charge was illegal use 1041 01:04:14,813 --> 01:04:18,024 of an electronic communication in a drug transaction. 1042 01:04:24,155 --> 01:04:27,325 They believed that I was someone that passed messages 1043 01:04:27,409 --> 01:04:30,578 from my father to the street organization. 1044 01:04:31,746 --> 01:04:34,666 I got probation because I didn't have priors. 1045 01:04:34,749 --> 01:04:38,878 They didn't really have too much on my father, but they had a lot on Gerard. 1046 01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,799 The fucked up thing about this whole thing is when we all got arrested 1047 01:04:42,882 --> 01:04:46,386 my father had nothing to do with this, they had very little to go on with him. 1048 01:04:46,428 --> 01:04:48,471 He may have been looking at six years. 1049 01:04:48,555 --> 01:04:50,390 I'm looking at 40. I'm dead-cold. 1050 01:04:50,432 --> 01:04:54,436 I'm wiretaps, there's no way to get outta this whole thing for me. 1051 01:04:55,603 --> 01:04:57,439 But then, the Federal Government got involved 1052 01:04:57,522 --> 01:04:59,399 and everything went crazy. 1053 01:05:02,610 --> 01:05:06,281 [James] The FBI were so mad that Sammy went back to crime. 1054 01:05:06,364 --> 01:05:09,534 And, frankly, I felt like they got a little egg on their face. 1055 01:05:09,617 --> 01:05:12,662 The most importance to them was charging Sammy. 1056 01:05:12,746 --> 01:05:15,874 They told me right away that, "We want this guy. We wanna prosecute him." 1057 01:05:17,083 --> 01:05:19,961 Sammy "The Bull" was the money behind the operation. 1058 01:05:22,464 --> 01:05:23,631 was definitely the face. 1059 01:05:35,310 --> 01:05:37,729 [detective speaking] 1060 01:05:44,402 --> 01:05:45,904 [detective speaking] 1061 01:05:54,329 --> 01:05:57,082 When I look at that, that's bullshit. 1062 01:05:57,165 --> 01:05:58,166 And that's a threat. 1063 01:05:58,249 --> 01:05:59,668 I would like to be sitting 1064 01:05:59,751 --> 01:06:01,086 in front of that cop... 1065 01:06:02,253 --> 01:06:04,255 ...with my .357 Magnum 1066 01:06:04,339 --> 01:06:06,591 pointed in his fucking face, 1067 01:06:06,675 --> 01:06:11,721 and say, "Do you wanna cooperate with me now before I pull the trigger?" 1068 01:06:11,805 --> 01:06:13,515 He will be number 20. 1069 01:06:14,808 --> 01:06:16,184 [detective speaking] 1070 01:06:28,446 --> 01:06:31,241 This kid, he broke before he got in the room. 1071 01:06:31,324 --> 01:06:33,118 He didn't even get a slap in the face. 1072 01:06:33,201 --> 01:06:37,038 Mob guys in New York, 1073 01:06:37,122 --> 01:06:40,083 you gotta kick their balls around a little bit... 1074 01:06:40,166 --> 01:06:43,628 ...for them to break. When you're facing a slap in the face, 1075 01:06:44,379 --> 01:06:46,214 take the slap, motherfucker. 1076 01:06:52,137 --> 01:06:55,265 [Karen] People would look at that and say he's a rat, right? 1077 01:06:55,348 --> 01:06:57,392 I look at it and say he's a snake 1078 01:06:57,475 --> 01:06:58,643 because I think this was something 1079 01:06:58,727 --> 01:07:00,186 that he was always planning on doing 1080 01:07:00,228 --> 01:07:01,354 if he got in trouble. 1081 01:07:02,981 --> 01:07:05,400 [Gerard] He knew he was gonna do that the day he met me. 1082 01:07:06,234 --> 01:07:08,445 In that restaurant Uncle Sal's, 1083 01:07:08,528 --> 01:07:10,572 when he introduced himself to me, 1084 01:07:10,655 --> 01:07:12,407 and I agreed to go out with him, 1085 01:07:12,490 --> 01:07:14,159 he already knew he was gonna do that. 1086 01:07:14,993 --> 01:07:16,036 He had his mind made up. 1087 01:07:17,245 --> 01:07:19,205 He had a get out of jail free card. 1088 01:07:19,247 --> 01:07:21,249 And he was gonna betray me no matter what. 1089 01:07:23,251 --> 01:07:27,088 From the day I started to the day I got arrested was six months. 1090 01:07:30,425 --> 01:07:31,885 Even at the age of 77, 1091 01:07:31,926 --> 01:07:33,595 if I can get off this chair quick enough, 1092 01:07:33,678 --> 01:07:35,013 I will probably break the fucking chair 1093 01:07:35,096 --> 01:07:36,097 right over his head. 1094 01:07:36,181 --> 01:07:37,724 Not so much what he did to me. 1095 01:07:39,100 --> 01:07:41,269 What he did to my son 1096 01:07:41,353 --> 01:07:42,937 who treated him like a brother. 1097 01:07:45,940 --> 01:07:47,984 [Rose] When it came down to everything, 1098 01:07:48,068 --> 01:07:51,196 Mike Papa ratted out Sammy, 1099 01:07:51,279 --> 01:07:55,658 which is ironic because Sammy did that do to the Mafia. 1100 01:07:55,742 --> 01:07:57,786 What do you want me to say about this? This is bullshit. 1101 01:07:59,788 --> 01:08:02,665 I cooperated because John Gotti did something 1102 01:08:02,749 --> 01:08:04,125 that was a rat move. 1103 01:08:04,876 --> 01:08:06,503 His defense was trying to say 1104 01:08:06,586 --> 01:08:09,589 that I was killing everybody and taking over everything. 1105 01:08:09,631 --> 01:08:14,219 So the theory was I would go away and he would go free. 1106 01:08:14,302 --> 01:08:18,598 In my mind I said, "Then fuck you, fuck the Mafia, 1107 01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,434 and I'm leaving, and I'm gonna switch sides." 1108 01:08:21,475 --> 01:08:23,019 Whatever happens, happens. 1109 01:08:23,103 --> 01:08:25,604 So I decided to walk the fuck away 1110 01:08:25,647 --> 01:08:27,857 from the Mafia and him. 1111 01:08:27,941 --> 01:08:30,068 Now, can I get rid of this fucking thing? 1112 01:08:32,487 --> 01:08:34,863 Now, even with Mike Papa, 1113 01:08:34,948 --> 01:08:37,367 my lawyers were telling me, "You could beat this, 1114 01:08:37,450 --> 01:08:38,993 but they're gonna bury your son. 1115 01:08:40,328 --> 01:08:41,871 Your wife is pinched. 1116 01:08:41,955 --> 01:08:43,832 Your daughter is pinched." 1117 01:08:43,915 --> 01:08:46,459 When I asked the lawyer, "Then what do they want?" 1118 01:08:47,252 --> 01:08:49,170 "They want you, Sammy. 1119 01:08:50,255 --> 01:08:52,590 They want you to say you're the boss of it. 1120 01:08:52,674 --> 01:08:55,260 They want you to say you ran it all, 1121 01:08:55,343 --> 01:08:56,678 you took over Arizona, 1122 01:08:56,761 --> 01:08:58,138 you did everything." 1123 01:08:59,514 --> 01:09:02,434 [Gerard] And they told him, "You need to take 20 years, 1124 01:09:03,518 --> 01:09:05,729 and we'll let your wife, your daughter go, 1125 01:09:05,812 --> 01:09:08,189 we'll give your son a light sentence," 1126 01:09:08,273 --> 01:09:11,609 which 10 years to them was a light sentence. 1127 01:09:11,693 --> 01:09:13,694 "But you have to take 20 years." 1128 01:09:15,947 --> 01:09:18,198 And I told my lawyer, "Make the deal. I did it all." 1129 01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:21,661 And that's exactly what I did. 1130 01:09:26,124 --> 01:09:28,542 Am I a rat? I took fucking 20 years 1131 01:09:28,626 --> 01:09:30,670 to help my kids and my family. Is that a rat? 1132 01:09:33,048 --> 01:09:35,966 He didn't sacrifice himself the first time with John Gotti, 1133 01:09:36,051 --> 01:09:38,136 wouldn't do it for nothing. 1134 01:09:38,219 --> 01:09:41,514 But for his family, he fell on the sword. 1135 01:09:46,310 --> 01:09:48,313 I think we all have to admit 1136 01:09:48,395 --> 01:09:49,606 that we have not stopped 1137 01:09:49,689 --> 01:09:51,149 the flow of ecstasy with this case. 1138 01:09:51,232 --> 01:09:52,649 What we have done with this case 1139 01:09:52,734 --> 01:09:54,819 is shut down a major drug organization 1140 01:09:54,903 --> 01:09:56,821 that was operating in this valley, 1141 01:09:56,905 --> 01:10:00,116 and hopefully send a message that, um, 1142 01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:01,743 we will take action. 1143 01:10:03,745 --> 01:10:07,040 [Shaun] "Sammy the Bull" Gravano's ecstasy operation 1144 01:10:07,082 --> 01:10:11,670 had brought unnecessary heat to the ecstasy scene in Arizona. 1145 01:10:11,753 --> 01:10:15,465 So I retreated to an apartment in Scottsdale 1146 01:10:15,548 --> 01:10:19,427 and didn't even let most of the people I used to associate know 1147 01:10:19,511 --> 01:10:20,595 where I lived. 1148 01:10:23,765 --> 01:10:27,644 But Schooly, Wild Man, and his girlfriend, Wild Woman 1149 01:10:27,727 --> 01:10:30,647 remained in Phoenix's drug-fueled world. 1150 01:10:30,730 --> 01:10:33,024 The closest people to English Shaun at the time 1151 01:10:33,108 --> 01:10:38,238 would be me, Wild Man, and Wild Woman. 1152 01:10:38,279 --> 01:10:41,366 She really caused me more problems than anything. 1153 01:10:41,449 --> 01:10:43,243 She was a pain in the ass, honestly. 1154 01:10:44,619 --> 01:10:46,871 This apartment is Wild Woman's apartment. 1155 01:10:47,956 --> 01:10:52,293 This building has had so much drugs run through it. 1156 01:10:53,962 --> 01:10:57,132 He didn't hide anything, it was out in the open. 1157 01:10:57,215 --> 01:11:01,386 She had 300 people a day running in here, day, night. 1158 01:11:03,763 --> 01:11:05,724 We were gonna get arrested because of her. 1159 01:11:05,807 --> 01:11:08,184 Everything was gonna fall apart because of how many people 1160 01:11:08,268 --> 01:11:10,979 she had running in and out of this place. 1161 01:11:11,062 --> 01:11:13,815 I never said anything to English Shaun about that 1162 01:11:13,898 --> 01:11:17,986 'cause at that time, Shaun and I were on, like, the fringe 1163 01:11:18,069 --> 01:11:22,365 because Wild Woman started to kinda come in between me and Shaun. 1164 01:11:22,449 --> 01:11:24,159 She started to cause a riff. 1165 01:11:24,242 --> 01:11:26,870 She was making up stories about me, like, 1166 01:11:26,953 --> 01:11:29,998 to make him like her more than me. 1167 01:11:30,081 --> 01:11:33,668 I just thought, "This dude's abandoning me, 1168 01:11:33,752 --> 01:11:35,795 he's replacing me with these other people. 1169 01:11:36,629 --> 01:11:37,672 This is some bullshit." 1170 01:11:39,841 --> 01:11:43,136 I was thinking, "Wild Woman's fucking everything up." 1171 01:11:43,178 --> 01:11:45,889 I needed to shut this place down, honestly, 1172 01:11:45,972 --> 01:11:48,475 'cause this was gonna get us all in trouble. 1173 01:11:51,311 --> 01:11:56,816 I bought this smoke bomb at the Spy Store in Downtown Phoenix. 1174 01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:01,613 I went to her house... 1175 01:12:02,864 --> 01:12:06,284 ...jumped out of the car, pulled it out, 1176 01:12:06,368 --> 01:12:08,870 lit it on fire, as soon as it started sparking 1177 01:12:08,953 --> 01:12:11,373 I went up and pulled it back, and just [mimics hissing]. 1178 01:12:14,209 --> 01:12:16,002 And I just took off running. 1179 01:12:16,044 --> 01:12:18,755 And you could just see smoke already coming out, 1180 01:12:18,838 --> 01:12:20,340 shooting out the window, 1181 01:12:20,382 --> 01:12:21,675 and you just heard people 1182 01:12:21,716 --> 01:12:23,927 running and screaming for their lives. 1183 01:12:24,010 --> 01:12:25,887 They had no idea what the fuck was going on. 1184 01:12:29,641 --> 01:12:32,310 Wild Woman was near the window when the fire bomb came in. 1185 01:12:33,561 --> 01:12:36,231 It just missed her, and I think she's got 1186 01:12:36,314 --> 01:12:39,192 something on her face still to this day. 1187 01:12:39,234 --> 01:12:43,363 [Schooly] After all that stuff happened with Wild Man and Wild Woman, 1188 01:12:43,405 --> 01:12:48,827 I thought something bad was gonna happen to me. 1189 01:12:48,910 --> 01:12:54,499 Wild Man was telling everybody he was gonna murder Schooly for fire-bombing his woman. 1190 01:12:55,583 --> 01:12:57,544 Schooly was so fearful for his life, 1191 01:12:57,585 --> 01:12:58,920 he fled the state. 1192 01:13:00,088 --> 01:13:01,423 I never spoke to him again. 1193 01:13:04,843 --> 01:13:06,094 I had to stay away, 1194 01:13:06,177 --> 01:13:07,262 and that's really about the time 1195 01:13:07,345 --> 01:13:08,930 that I dipped the fuck out. 1196 01:13:10,098 --> 01:13:11,224 There's no going back. 1197 01:13:12,434 --> 01:13:14,602 It was over between me and Shaun. 1198 01:13:18,231 --> 01:13:20,608 And then May 16th 2002, 1199 01:13:20,692 --> 01:13:24,612 bam! bam! bam! bam!, [mimics door opening] a door flies off its hinges, 1200 01:13:24,696 --> 01:13:27,866 and there's screaming, "Hands above your head! 1201 01:13:27,949 --> 01:13:30,118 Get on the fucking ground now! 1202 01:13:30,201 --> 01:13:31,703 Don't fucking move!" 1203 01:13:31,786 --> 01:13:34,831 As I dropped to the floor, 1204 01:13:34,914 --> 01:13:38,918 I realized everything I'd ever done wrong in my life, 1205 01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:40,754 I now had to pay the price for. 1206 01:13:40,795 --> 01:13:42,297 They cuffed me, 1207 01:13:42,380 --> 01:13:44,632 and one of the detectives just hoisted me up... 1208 01:13:45,925 --> 01:13:47,552 ...and was in my face, and he was like, 1209 01:13:47,635 --> 01:13:50,972 English Shaun, we've finally got you." 1210 01:13:52,390 --> 01:13:54,309 And the question in my mind was 1211 01:13:55,143 --> 01:13:56,311 "Who betrayed me?" 1212 01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:04,486 [Schooly] Before they arrested Shaun, 1213 01:14:04,569 --> 01:14:07,572 I got arrested for cashing bad checks 1214 01:14:07,614 --> 01:14:11,284 because I'm broke and I spun out on drugs. 1215 01:14:11,368 --> 01:14:15,288 I'm like, "What do I gotta do to get outta this charge?" 1216 01:14:15,372 --> 01:14:17,457 The cops were like, "Well, tell me something I don't know." 1217 01:14:18,708 --> 01:14:22,295 I just told them about an ecstasy operation. 1218 01:14:23,254 --> 01:14:25,048 I kinda gave them stories, 1219 01:14:25,131 --> 01:14:28,093 rundowns about Wild Man and English Shaun. 1220 01:14:28,134 --> 01:14:30,178 And he's like, "You gotta prove it to me. 1221 01:14:30,261 --> 01:14:32,597 "Okay." I said, "Let me walk out and go to my house 1222 01:14:32,639 --> 01:14:34,557 and I'll bring you back a stack of plane tickets 1223 01:14:34,641 --> 01:14:37,227 that show I went to LA every week. 1224 01:14:37,310 --> 01:14:39,521 And so I brought them back that stack of ticket stubs, 1225 01:14:39,604 --> 01:14:42,482 and no charges filed, they let me ride. 1226 01:14:45,235 --> 01:14:50,448 When I found out that Schooly had gone to the cops, 1227 01:14:50,490 --> 01:14:52,075 I was heartbroken... 1228 01:14:53,451 --> 01:14:56,287 ...that my little brother had gone that far. 1229 01:14:56,329 --> 01:14:57,497 I hadn't anticipated that. 1230 01:15:00,667 --> 01:15:02,669 If you're my big brother and you got my back, 1231 01:15:03,586 --> 01:15:05,005 then you should always have my back. 1232 01:15:05,088 --> 01:15:06,881 And if you're gonna discard me 1233 01:15:06,965 --> 01:15:08,675 for these other fucking people, then... 1234 01:15:10,510 --> 01:15:12,846 ...it is what it is, you know. 1235 01:15:12,929 --> 01:15:14,931 I sure as hell ain't gonna bite the bullet for somebody 1236 01:15:15,015 --> 01:15:16,599 that ain't gonna be there for me in the end. 1237 01:15:18,977 --> 01:15:20,687 [interviewer speaking] 1238 01:15:23,857 --> 01:15:25,942 Loyalty, and I live by that. 1239 01:15:28,445 --> 01:15:29,946 [interviewer speaking] 1240 01:15:31,031 --> 01:15:32,532 Yeah, always. 1241 01:15:37,662 --> 01:15:39,039 Till the end. [chuckles] 1242 01:15:39,998 --> 01:15:40,999 Until the end. 1243 01:15:41,541 --> 01:15:42,542 Yeah. 1244 01:15:43,293 --> 01:15:45,295 When, uh, when the ship sinks, 1245 01:15:45,378 --> 01:15:47,047 I guess everybody runs their own way. 1246 01:15:48,131 --> 01:15:49,132 You know. 1247 01:16:16,159 --> 01:16:18,370 [Shaun] I was sentenced to nine and a half years. 1248 01:16:18,411 --> 01:16:21,498 I served 26 months in Sheriff Joe Arpaio's 1249 01:16:21,581 --> 01:16:24,542 Maricopa County Jail system, 1250 01:16:24,584 --> 01:16:28,171 the jail system that had the highest rate of death in America. 1251 01:16:30,507 --> 01:16:35,053 And to my shock and surprise, my prison mate was none other than Gerard Gravano. 1252 01:16:39,391 --> 01:16:41,476 One day, Gerard told me about his plans 1253 01:16:41,559 --> 01:16:44,562 the night he came looking for me at the Crobar Nightclub. 1254 01:16:44,604 --> 01:16:47,273 I hadn't realized how close I'd come to death. 1255 01:16:53,196 --> 01:16:56,866 It's been about 23 years since the last time I was here. 1256 01:16:58,201 --> 01:17:00,745 Came in right in this back door right here. 1257 01:17:00,787 --> 01:17:02,956 We were here looking for English Shaun. 1258 01:17:03,957 --> 01:17:06,543 Place was crowded, people dancing. 1259 01:17:08,545 --> 01:17:10,380 But he was gone before I got here. 1260 01:17:11,381 --> 01:17:12,924 As we walking in this back door, 1261 01:17:12,966 --> 01:17:14,300 he was walking out the front door. 1262 01:17:15,301 --> 01:17:17,595 We missed him literally by seconds. 1263 01:17:17,637 --> 01:17:18,888 [crowd cheering] 1264 01:17:19,556 --> 01:17:21,141 But I was relieved actually 1265 01:17:21,224 --> 01:17:24,269 at the end of the day that he wasn't here... 1266 01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:27,147 ...because I was prepared to kill him that night in the desert... 1267 01:17:28,732 --> 01:17:31,317 ...only because it was expected of me. 1268 01:17:34,779 --> 01:17:36,114 People expected me to be violent, 1269 01:17:36,156 --> 01:17:37,949 people expected me to go on robberies 1270 01:17:37,991 --> 01:17:40,618 because I was the son of "Sammy the Bull." 1271 01:17:41,661 --> 01:17:45,331 I was pushed to be someone I'm really not. 1272 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,002 I grew up in the shadow of the "Bull." 1273 01:17:58,678 --> 01:18:01,473 -[doves cooing] -Well, growing up in Staten Island, 1274 01:18:01,514 --> 01:18:03,975 in our backyard we had these doves. 1275 01:18:04,017 --> 01:18:06,686 We had a pigeon coop, and we used to have feed. 1276 01:18:06,770 --> 01:18:11,441 But by having these, stray, real ugly gray pigeons used to come. 1277 01:18:11,524 --> 01:18:13,860 But we used to have a BB gun. 1278 01:18:13,943 --> 01:18:17,655 And we used to shoot them, and they used to fall off the roof, 1279 01:18:17,697 --> 01:18:20,992 die, and put them in a bag, and throw them away, it was pretty normal. 1280 01:18:21,701 --> 01:18:23,661 One day, I hit the bird... 1281 01:18:23,703 --> 01:18:25,205 [pigeon coos] 1282 01:18:25,288 --> 01:18:28,333 ...and he rolled off my roof and hit the floor. 1283 01:18:28,375 --> 01:18:29,876 But he wasn't dead. 1284 01:18:29,959 --> 01:18:31,503 So I cocked the gun again, 1285 01:18:31,544 --> 01:18:33,338 I was gonna shoot him. 1286 01:18:33,380 --> 01:18:35,256 My father said, "No, don't shoot him." 1287 01:18:35,340 --> 01:18:37,300 He said, "I want you to pick him up, 1288 01:18:37,384 --> 01:18:40,178 and I want you to snap his neck and throw him in the bag." 1289 01:18:41,554 --> 01:18:42,639 I looked at the bird. 1290 01:18:44,307 --> 01:18:46,142 I looked at my father. 1291 01:18:46,226 --> 01:18:48,478 I said, "I can't do it. I just can't 1292 01:18:48,561 --> 01:18:50,730 fucking snap his neck and throw him in the bag." 1293 01:18:50,814 --> 01:18:52,816 I could not fucking do it. 1294 01:18:55,193 --> 01:18:59,698 That's my father testing me to see am I cut out for that life in the Mafia? 1295 01:19:00,490 --> 01:19:01,491 And I wasn't. 1296 01:19:02,492 --> 01:19:03,993 I didn't pass his test. 1297 01:19:05,245 --> 01:19:07,330 And the same thing happened here in Arizona. 1298 01:19:07,414 --> 01:19:09,165 They expected me to kill people. 1299 01:19:11,042 --> 01:19:12,752 Mike Papa was in my ear, 1300 01:19:12,836 --> 01:19:13,920 "You're being disrespected, 1301 01:19:14,004 --> 01:19:15,005 you're being disrespected, 1302 01:19:15,088 --> 01:19:16,172 you're being disrespected." 1303 01:19:16,256 --> 01:19:18,675 And then I get a call that Shaun Attwood 1304 01:19:18,758 --> 01:19:20,760 is here at this place. And I said, "Okay, 1305 01:19:20,844 --> 01:19:22,595 I'll show you what disrespect is." 1306 01:19:24,097 --> 01:19:26,057 But ultimately, at the end of the day, 1307 01:19:26,099 --> 01:19:27,976 I probably couldn't have done it. I sit here and say 1308 01:19:28,059 --> 01:19:29,811 that's what I was planning on doing that night, 1309 01:19:29,894 --> 01:19:31,229 but I may have got him out to the desert, 1310 01:19:31,271 --> 01:19:32,689 and I just couldn't have done it. 1311 01:19:41,281 --> 01:19:45,285 So when English Shaun came into the jail we formed a friendship. 1312 01:19:45,368 --> 01:19:47,454 I didn't have any problems with him after that. 1313 01:19:48,705 --> 01:19:49,706 It was over. 1314 01:19:50,290 --> 01:19:51,458 Chapter closed. 1315 01:19:52,959 --> 01:19:55,503 [Shaun] Spending time with Gerard Gravano in jail, 1316 01:19:55,587 --> 01:19:57,964 he opened up to me about his struggles, 1317 01:19:58,048 --> 01:20:01,051 the pressure on him to make a name for himself, 1318 01:20:01,134 --> 01:20:04,596 to be someone, 'cause he's got this dad 1319 01:20:04,637 --> 01:20:06,056 who's a legendary figure. 1320 01:20:07,307 --> 01:20:09,559 And then the threats to the family's lives. 1321 01:20:11,269 --> 01:20:13,063 The constant need for safety. 1322 01:20:14,898 --> 01:20:17,442 It really opened my heart to what he'd been through. 1323 01:20:21,946 --> 01:20:24,824 For me, over the following weeks, 1324 01:20:24,908 --> 01:20:28,411 I started to look back at the last 10 years of my life, 1325 01:20:28,495 --> 01:20:29,954 and said to myself, 1326 01:20:29,996 --> 01:20:33,583 "Shaun, my God, what have you done? 1327 01:20:33,667 --> 01:20:36,086 How on Earth are you still alive?" 1328 01:20:36,169 --> 01:20:40,215 Doing an increasing amount of drugs over the years 1329 01:20:40,298 --> 01:20:46,304 had eroded my conscience and put a cloud in my head that I didn't know was there. 1330 01:20:46,346 --> 01:20:48,973 I'd surrounded myself with people 1331 01:20:49,015 --> 01:20:53,228 engaging in equally insane and criminal behavior, 1332 01:20:53,311 --> 01:20:56,064 and there was nobody to put the brakes on. 1333 01:20:56,147 --> 01:21:00,694 I had to be pushed to the brink to get 1334 01:21:00,777 --> 01:21:05,281 the English Shaun persona crushed out of me. 1335 01:21:07,117 --> 01:21:08,451 It was a moment of truth for me 1336 01:21:08,535 --> 01:21:10,370 that I'd been trying to hide from 1337 01:21:10,453 --> 01:21:13,039 throughout the whole time in Arizona. 1338 01:21:17,627 --> 01:21:21,047 In all these story arcs of drug trafficking, 1339 01:21:21,131 --> 01:21:23,800 it begins with the glitz, the glamour, the fun... 1340 01:21:25,051 --> 01:21:28,221 ...then the cops, the heat, the competition, 1341 01:21:28,304 --> 01:21:30,432 and then the slippery slope down. 1342 01:21:30,515 --> 01:21:32,142 [crows cawing] 1343 01:21:43,403 --> 01:21:45,321 There's a hell of a price to be paid 1344 01:21:45,405 --> 01:21:47,073 if you get involved in the lifestyle. 1345 01:21:50,326 --> 01:21:52,245 Most of the men from my inner circle 1346 01:21:52,328 --> 01:21:55,331 have paid the ultimate price of death, 1347 01:21:56,082 --> 01:21:57,584 including Wild Man. 1348 01:21:59,711 --> 01:22:01,588 When I found out that Wild Man had died, 1349 01:22:02,589 --> 01:22:03,923 my brain wouldn't accept it. 1350 01:22:05,258 --> 01:22:07,427 And then the next day, that was it then, 1351 01:22:07,510 --> 01:22:08,845 that's when it just started hitting me. 1352 01:22:10,889 --> 01:22:13,016 And there was an owl howling. 1353 01:22:15,602 --> 01:22:18,271 And I hadn't heard an owl howl where I live. 1354 01:22:19,898 --> 01:22:22,233 And I thought it was him saying goodbye to me. 1355 01:22:23,735 --> 01:22:25,445 [sniffles] 1356 01:22:31,368 --> 01:22:34,454 Part of owning up to my past is coming to terms with the fact 1357 01:22:34,537 --> 01:22:37,207 that I brought my best mate Wild Man to Arizona. 1358 01:22:38,208 --> 01:22:40,669 He ended up in jail for seven years. 1359 01:22:40,752 --> 01:22:43,213 And he died a young man back in our hometown. 1360 01:22:44,255 --> 01:22:46,007 I can't forgive myself for that 1361 01:22:46,091 --> 01:22:47,425 because it's something I've got to live with 1362 01:22:47,467 --> 01:22:48,551 for the rest of my life. 1363 01:23:04,275 --> 01:23:05,485 Oh, where were we now? 1364 01:23:05,568 --> 01:23:08,530 [indistinct speaking] 1365 01:23:08,613 --> 01:23:12,951 [Shaun] When I walked out the gate and saw my mom, dad, and sister smiling, 1366 01:23:13,034 --> 01:23:15,078 my excitement just went through the roof 1367 01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:16,705 even though I'd been awake for days. 1368 01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:23,044 I arrived in Phoenix, Arizona with no cash, only credit cards. 1369 01:23:24,087 --> 01:23:27,298 I burnt through millions over the years. 1370 01:23:31,761 --> 01:23:34,014 And I came back on UK soil 1371 01:23:34,097 --> 01:23:37,809 with a boxful of worthless belongings from prison. 1372 01:23:43,773 --> 01:23:46,443 Looking back, one of my worst memories 1373 01:23:46,484 --> 01:23:49,487 is having to call my parents 1374 01:23:49,571 --> 01:23:53,825 and tell them I'd been incarcerated for drug dealing. 1375 01:23:56,494 --> 01:23:59,080 I thought I was so smart, above the law, never get caught, 1376 01:23:59,164 --> 01:24:02,083 or even if I did get caught, I could insulate myself from you guys finding out. 1377 01:24:02,167 --> 01:24:04,294 -Mmm. -My friends wouldn't get arrested with me. 1378 01:24:04,336 --> 01:24:06,171 -I've got money over here. I could get a lawyer. -Mmm. 1379 01:24:06,254 --> 01:24:07,589 -All that kind of stuff. -Got it covered. 1380 01:24:09,007 --> 01:24:10,467 But I was wrong, 1381 01:24:10,508 --> 01:24:12,510 it was my own miscalculations. 1382 01:24:13,678 --> 01:24:16,765 Caused absolute devastation in your lives. 1383 01:24:16,848 --> 01:24:19,934 It was dreadful, and your mom was in pieces 1384 01:24:20,018 --> 01:24:21,853 'cause we didn't know what we were gonna do. 1385 01:24:21,936 --> 01:24:24,647 And I think that same night, 1386 01:24:24,689 --> 01:24:27,484 we got a reverse call from yourself. 1387 01:24:27,525 --> 01:24:31,905 Do you remember? And it was you with this frightened voice 1388 01:24:31,988 --> 01:24:36,701 saying, "You need to raise as much money as possible to get a good attorney." 1389 01:24:36,785 --> 01:24:38,328 Having to ask you guys for money 1390 01:24:38,370 --> 01:24:39,913 which was a horrible thing to do. 1391 01:24:39,996 --> 01:24:41,122 [Shaun's dad] Mmm-hmm. 1392 01:24:41,206 --> 01:24:42,957 But I didn't understand 1393 01:24:43,041 --> 01:24:45,752 the full gravity 'cause I think you were insulating me at that point. 1394 01:24:45,835 --> 01:24:47,962 It was early on over how that affected your lives. 1395 01:24:48,046 --> 01:24:48,963 [Shaun's dad] Mmm, oh, yeah. 1396 01:24:49,047 --> 01:24:50,048 We just did what we could. 1397 01:24:50,131 --> 01:24:51,508 And over the years, as your mom was working, 1398 01:24:51,549 --> 01:24:54,094 she also paid off various 1399 01:24:54,177 --> 01:24:55,762 lawyers' fees and legal fees. 1400 01:24:55,845 --> 01:24:58,306 The other horrible thing besides the financial impact, 1401 01:24:58,390 --> 01:25:00,141 was my mom's nervous breakdown. 1402 01:25:01,393 --> 01:25:03,061 [Shaun's dad] She didn't tell anybody for months. 1403 01:25:03,144 --> 01:25:05,188 She wouldn't let me tell anybody. 1404 01:25:07,649 --> 01:25:09,234 [crying] Still feel terrible for that. 1405 01:25:14,072 --> 01:25:17,492 I feel so guilty, dad, knowing the suffering I've put youse through. 1406 01:25:17,575 --> 01:25:19,160 I would never do anything like that again. 1407 01:25:20,578 --> 01:25:21,579 So sorry, dad. 1408 01:25:22,247 --> 01:25:23,748 It's done. It's passed. 1409 01:25:23,832 --> 01:25:26,042 -As far as I'm concerned, it's done. -[sighs] 1410 01:25:26,084 --> 01:25:28,128 We forgive, and there's nothing to forgive now. 1411 01:25:28,211 --> 01:25:29,713 I wanna thank you so much. 1412 01:25:29,754 --> 01:25:32,882 I mean, just what you've said today... 1413 01:25:34,175 --> 01:25:37,053 ...has made me feel [chuckles] a lot better to be honest. 1414 01:25:37,095 --> 01:25:38,888 I'm gonna have to give my dad a hug, I think. 1415 01:25:38,930 --> 01:25:42,017 -Not too hard. I'm fragile, I'm fragile. -[laughing] 1416 01:25:42,100 --> 01:25:44,519 Love you. I love you. Thank you. 1417 01:25:44,602 --> 01:25:46,855 Thank you. Oh, my God. 1418 01:26:02,912 --> 01:26:04,289 Let me see if I can get that. 1419 01:26:05,874 --> 01:26:07,792 I can't make a shot if I stood on my head. 1420 01:26:08,918 --> 01:26:10,295 We've been through a lot. 1421 01:26:11,129 --> 01:26:12,130 And here we are. 1422 01:26:13,089 --> 01:26:14,758 In the basement shooting pool. 1423 01:26:14,799 --> 01:26:18,053 And, uh, I think you're the perfect guy 1424 01:26:18,970 --> 01:26:22,766 to take over and fit into my shoes. 1425 01:26:22,807 --> 01:26:26,227 Just remember to stay good and kind with people. 1426 01:26:26,311 --> 01:26:28,772 The family, keep it close. 1427 01:26:28,813 --> 01:26:32,275 And just do the right thing. Don't make the mistakes I made. 1428 01:26:32,317 --> 01:26:34,778 I mean, I've been kind-hearted a lot of... 1429 01:26:34,819 --> 01:26:36,279 a good portion of my life. 1430 01:26:36,321 --> 01:26:41,534 And I do have the ability to be violent 1431 01:26:41,618 --> 01:26:42,619 even though... 1432 01:26:43,745 --> 01:26:46,373 ...it's not, you know, not what I wanna do, 1433 01:26:46,456 --> 01:26:50,960 or a lot of times I was acting because I'm your son. 1434 01:26:51,002 --> 01:26:54,130 People expect me to do things. 1435 01:26:54,172 --> 01:26:57,008 -Whether... -Is that what this whole ecstasy thing was? 1436 01:26:58,259 --> 01:27:01,554 The drugs. Doesn't matter what people want you to be. 1437 01:27:01,638 --> 01:27:04,349 Just 'cause I had a big name, don't live in my shadows. 1438 01:27:05,266 --> 01:27:08,603 And know all the good things I taught you. 1439 01:27:08,687 --> 01:27:12,315 The bad stuff, flush it down the bowl. Get rid of it. 1440 01:27:12,357 --> 01:27:14,150 Step out of the shadows and be you. 1441 01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:16,569 That's what you gotta be. 1442 01:27:16,653 --> 01:27:17,862 For a long time I had 1443 01:27:17,946 --> 01:27:20,115 a problem doing that. 1444 01:27:20,198 --> 01:27:22,325 I got caught up. I was out here in Arizona, 1445 01:27:22,367 --> 01:27:24,327 I meet this kid Mike Papa. 1446 01:27:25,161 --> 01:27:27,622 I started to feel like my old self, 1447 01:27:27,706 --> 01:27:29,124 like I was back in New York. 1448 01:27:29,207 --> 01:27:30,291 What do you think about it now? 1449 01:27:31,876 --> 01:27:33,545 You think he made you feel good? 1450 01:27:34,838 --> 01:27:37,257 No, and I should have seen this from day one. 1451 01:27:37,340 --> 01:27:38,383 It's gone. 1452 01:27:39,134 --> 01:27:42,137 Don't carry baggage on that, 1453 01:27:42,220 --> 01:27:45,557 "You fucked up, and I went to prison," and all of this shit. 1454 01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:47,934 -It... It happens itself. -It's a heavy burden, though. 1455 01:27:48,018 --> 01:27:50,103 -It's... It's every burden... I mean... -No. But get away from it. 1456 01:27:50,186 --> 01:27:52,605 -...I put you in prison. -Understand you made a mistake. 1457 01:27:52,689 --> 01:27:56,317 Don't live with it. It's... It's over, it's done with. 1458 01:27:56,401 --> 01:27:57,986 We have our lives started again. 1459 01:27:58,069 --> 01:27:59,529 Don't look in the rearview mirror, 1460 01:27:59,571 --> 01:28:01,489 you'll never grow. 1461 01:28:01,573 --> 01:28:04,409 Look through the front windshield, go forward. 1462 01:28:04,492 --> 01:28:06,202 I look at him, he's a great kid. 1463 01:28:06,244 --> 01:28:07,495 I call him a kid, he's not a kid, 1464 01:28:07,579 --> 01:28:08,747 he's a man, he's a great man. 1465 01:28:09,330 --> 01:28:11,666 But, uh, my life 1466 01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:14,502 must have added so much pressure onto him, 1467 01:28:14,586 --> 01:28:15,879 being "Sammy the Bull's" son. 1468 01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:18,089 I think the... the Mafia 1469 01:28:18,173 --> 01:28:19,924 did some damage. 1470 01:28:20,008 --> 01:28:21,885 But it's how you come out of these things. 1471 01:28:21,926 --> 01:28:24,262 [Gerard] You and mom I think did a great job. 1472 01:28:24,346 --> 01:28:26,389 raising me and Karen. 1473 01:28:29,392 --> 01:28:31,603 I just try to... 1474 01:28:31,686 --> 01:28:35,857 My whole goal now nowadays is try to instill what... 1475 01:28:35,940 --> 01:28:39,778 what we were taught growing up in my kids. 1476 01:28:39,861 --> 01:28:44,949 And I just hope one day I can be a half as father as you were. 1477 01:28:45,700 --> 01:28:47,952 [sighs] 1478 01:28:48,787 --> 01:28:50,372 I think you've already been 1479 01:28:51,122 --> 01:28:52,791 twice the father that I am. 1480 01:28:54,292 --> 01:28:56,461 But, uh, that's a great compliment, Gerard. 1481 01:29:00,298 --> 01:29:01,383 I appreciate that. 1482 01:29:02,592 --> 01:29:07,138 All I can say is people could only pray to be so lucky 1483 01:29:07,222 --> 01:29:11,476 as to I still have you today to ask you questions, 1484 01:29:12,936 --> 01:29:14,062 and to be here for me. 1485 01:29:14,145 --> 01:29:15,605 I will always be here for you. 1486 01:29:15,647 --> 01:29:17,357 I always will be here for you. 1487 01:29:17,440 --> 01:29:18,983 I really, really will.