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YTS.MX
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CREW MEMBER:
Take 5. We're recording.
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00:00:16,266 --> 00:00:17,892
- [clears throat]
I'm not ready.
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[laughter]
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CREW MEMBER:
Wait a minute.
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Stand by, please.
Shh. Quiet.
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BARBARA:
When I'm on camera...
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Okay?
PERSON: Everybody got roll?
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- Which way do you want me
to look--in you or in you?
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I am fully confident.
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I don't want to have to stop
in the middle of a sentence.
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And I have a kind
of courage...
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that I may not have
in real life.
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- What do I call you
during this interview?
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- Barbara.
- Barbara? Is that all right?
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- I hope so.
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[dramatic music]
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PERSON 1:
Both sets, be quiet, please.
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PERSON 2:
Barbara, we are rolling.
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BARBARA:
Have speed?
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00:00:52,636 --> 00:00:54,095
Is everybody in position?
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We all ready?
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00:00:55,847 --> 00:00:58,182
Are you ready
to be interrogated?
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- She asked the question
that nobody else had asked.
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- Are you sorry
you didn't burn the tapes?
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Why didn't you have
your nose fixed?
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Are you bisexual?
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00:01:07,109 --> 00:01:09,402
Did you ever order
anyone killed?
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- And asked it in a way
that always hit a nerve.
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- Why the tears now, Oprah?
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CYNTHIA: Sitting down
with Barbara Walters,
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no one ever got out
totally unscathed.
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BARBARA:
Okay.
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KATIE:
She could talk to anyone...
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- Will you ever shave off
that beard?
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- [chuckles]
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- About anything.
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- You don't really act.
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You don't sing.
You don't dance.
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You don't have any...
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KIM: Talent.
- Forgive me--any talent.
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- You know, you're surrounded
by beautiful flowers.
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The lighting is perfect.
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There's maybe a gauze
on the lens.
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And then suddenly
she would just throw
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a hardball out of nowhere.
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- Martha, why do
so many people hate you?
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- Each and every one of us
has people that love us
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and people that hate us.
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- No, not everybody has
people who hate them.
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Anything you regret?
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Is it ego,
or is it insecurity?
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KATIE: Barbara
sometimes asked questions
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that revealed a lot
about herself.
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- Is there a conflict
between the working women
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and the children?
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Do you feel like a flop?
Do you feel like a failure?
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BETTE:
She was fearless.
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And sometimes she got
under people's skin.
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- Ever do drugs
in front of your child?
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- My God.
What a question.
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BARBARA: You never say,
"I made mistakes."
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You haven't said it.
- Barbara, I make mistakes.
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I make mistakes.
Everybody makes mistakes.
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- I mean, people don't think
you show any humility.
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I'm not always a pussycat.
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I'm sure there are times
when I'm cold.
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I'm sure there are times
when I'm hostile.
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No.
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Please, do not interrupt me.
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I don't care if I'm shiny.
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I care more
about this interview.
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OPRAH: Barbara knew
what she was up against.
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- This studio is full
of delicacies this morning,
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and here's one of them.
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Her name is Barbara.
- Aw, that's so nice.
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BOB: Whether it was her
looks or her voice,
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just the fact
that she was a woman,
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there were people who just
didn't believe in her.
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And she loved
proving them wrong.
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♪ ♪
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- Nothing would stand
in her way.
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- Okay, let's go.
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Let me know
when you're all ready.
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Don't cut again
unless you must.
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HOST: Right now,
ladies and gentlemen,
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let me introduce to you
one of America's
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top news correspondents,
whose provocative interviews
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have riveted
television viewers.
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Would you welcome
Barbara Walters.
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[applause]
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[indistinct chatter]
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[steady music]
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♪ ♪
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- Ten seconds.
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- Stand by, videotape.
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- We forced our staff writer
Barbara Walters to go to Paris
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to cover the fashion openings.
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BARBARA: When I first came
to work in the Today show,
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I was hired to write
the women's features.
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Every day I had to go and look
at fashion shows.
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HOST: Mm.
- And then I had to have lunch
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at Maxime's
and drink champagne.
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HOST: Huh.
- And then I had to smell
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all the perfume at Dior.
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I mean, it was so trying
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that I took absolutely
the very last plane I could
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to get back here today.
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HOST:
Well, we welcome you back.
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BARBARA: I was not
what they were putting
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in front of the cameras.
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They were looking
for models, actresses,
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and it was
a male-dominated shop.
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- Hey!
[laughter]
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- Barbara, are you set to go?
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BARBARA:
It never occurred to me
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that I would be
in front of the camera.
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I am certainly no baby.
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I wasn't beautiful,
and I didn't pronounce my Rs.
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And raincoats.
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But they needed someone
they could hire cheap.
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I worked cheap.
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This is my diploma.
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It proves that I did
indeed go to bunny school.
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I became the Today reporter.
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I went off and did stories.
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Here they are--graduate
bunnies at the Playboy Club
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at the end
of a hard day's work.
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KATIE:
Barbara did all the soft,
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fluffy stories--
the women's stories.
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BARBARA:
Standard equipment
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is the bunny cottontail.
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KATIE: But she wanted
to be taken seriously.
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She wanted to be appreciated
for her intelligence.
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And so she fought really hard
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to do some of the more serious
interviews.
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- Suppose that,
for one reason or another,
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you could no longer
take the pill
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and had to go back to another
contraceptive device.
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And when I went on the air,
the big thing for me was,
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I could write
my own questions.
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And when we began to do
film reports, I could edit.
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I'm a good editor.
That's what I do best.
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Those were
the qualities I had--
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not my looks or my great
personality, I don't think.
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But I could do those things.
No woman had done them.
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There is another side
to the royal family,
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a side I saw firsthand--
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the human, the vulnerable,
the imperfect side.
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CYNTHIA: Barbara was
a real fixture in our home.
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We watched the Today show.
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She entered
the television-news business
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at a time--
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to say women didn't have
a seat at the table--
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women weren't even in the room
where the table was.
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- I'm Frank McGee.
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Joe Garagiola has the day off.
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Barbara Walters is here.
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BARBARA:
When Hugh Downs, the host
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of the Today show,
left the program...
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- Welcome
to the Today program.
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BARBARA: A newsman
named Frank McGee came in.
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The hard news interviews,
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he wanted to do them
by himself.
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This girl sitting next to me
shouldn't be able to do them.
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And he went to the president
of the network and said,
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"Barbara should not be allowed
to come in on this interview
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until I have asked
three questions."
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Well, today I would have quit.
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I didn't say, "How dare you?"
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There was no place
to go and complain.
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You swallowed, and you
worked it out yourself.
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- So she figured out
a way around that
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by doing interviews
outside of the studio.
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I mean, really, the reason
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that she started
doing interviews
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and ultimately became
famous for them,
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it was a workaround.
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BARBARA: So pushy cookie did
all of those interviews
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outside of the studio.
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Your Highness,
I must ask you the question
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that most Americans want
to know about you.
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Are you happy?
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- I've had many happy moments
in my life, yes.
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I don't think happiness--being
happy is a perpetual state.
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- Are you ever bored?
And if so, what bores you?
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Or do you always have
this nourishing curiosity?
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- No.
I'm terribly curious.
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I mean, it's very hard
for me to get bored,
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because, mm...
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because even when somebody
is being actively boring,
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I'm interested in
how they are boring me.
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BARBARA: Do you think
it's possible to be an actress
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and be happily married?
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- Well, I don't think anybody
who married me thought so.
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[chuckles]
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KATIE:
Barbara was proving to be
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a very integral part
of the Today show.
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HOST: You say you brought
the ratings up.
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Do you have any idea why?
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BARBARA:
I think I was myself.
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People felt that they knew me.
I was very accessible.
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And I guess...
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00:08:01,398 --> 00:08:03,775
in television terms,
I was smart.
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This is a sad day for us,
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00:08:08,571 --> 00:08:11,407
a sad time
for the Today program.
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00:08:11,408 --> 00:08:14,576
Frank McGee died yesterday
at the age of 52.
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It was in my contract
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that if Frank ever left,
I would be cohost.
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Nobody expected him to leave.
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He died of cancer.
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00:08:22,377 --> 00:08:26,380
- She got it literally over
Frank McGee's dead body.
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00:08:26,381 --> 00:08:29,258
[soft music]
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00:08:29,259 --> 00:08:31,760
Do you know what happened
in Today show history
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00:08:31,761 --> 00:08:34,513
on April 22, 1974?
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00:08:34,514 --> 00:08:36,306
Well, it's early, so we'll
give you a little break.
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00:08:36,307 --> 00:08:37,975
It's the date that
Barbara Walters
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became the first female
cohost of the Today show.
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She often told me,
"Oh, we're so alike.
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Neither of us
is that attractive."
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[laughing]
I was like, "Thanks."
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But I think what she meant is,
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our looks were secondary.
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- Growing up watching
Barbara Walters,
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00:08:56,161 --> 00:08:58,620
having Barbara Walters
in my head
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as I am doing my first
audition for television--
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00:09:01,708 --> 00:09:03,417
I mean, she was
a mentor for me
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00:09:03,418 --> 00:09:05,669
before she knew
that she was a mentor.
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00:09:05,670 --> 00:09:07,880
I remembered seeing you
on the Today show.
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00:09:07,881 --> 00:09:09,798
And you always used
to do this.
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00:09:09,799 --> 00:09:12,426
And I remember you looking up
and looking down--
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00:09:12,427 --> 00:09:13,927
- I was looking at questions.
- Yeah.
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00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:16,221
And so what I did was I'd look
down, and then I'd look up,
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and I'd talk,
and then I'd look down.
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Whew!
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And for the longest time,
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I'd watch you every morning,
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and I'd go on the air,
and I'd imitate you.
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KATIE:
Barbara was tenacious,
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00:09:28,068 --> 00:09:30,861
and she was ambitious,
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00:09:30,862 --> 00:09:33,280
which was a dirty word
for women.
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BARBARA: Until the casket
of President Kennedy
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00:09:35,950 --> 00:09:37,993
leaves the rotunda.
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00:09:37,994 --> 00:09:40,954
KATIE: She started as the only
female staff writer...
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00:09:40,955 --> 00:09:43,165
BARBARA: Dr. Kissinger, how
would you describe your job?
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00:09:43,166 --> 00:09:45,250
Talking about
the Watergate break-in.
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KATIE: And ultimately became
a household name.
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00:09:48,046 --> 00:09:49,630
- I've been working
in television
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for almost 20 years now,
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00:09:51,466 --> 00:09:53,717
11 of those years
in front of the cameras.
252
00:09:53,718 --> 00:09:56,470
And I've seen how things
have changed for women
253
00:09:56,471 --> 00:09:58,056
and how they haven't changed.
254
00:10:00,558 --> 00:10:02,184
CREW MEMBER:
Okay.
255
00:10:02,185 --> 00:10:03,853
Stand by, please.
256
00:10:05,605 --> 00:10:07,731
Clear, please. Okay.
257
00:10:07,732 --> 00:10:09,775
- Listen, tell me
about this marriage of yours,
258
00:10:09,776 --> 00:10:12,319
this man whom nobody
ever seems to see.
259
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:13,779
We heard that he was here.
260
00:10:13,780 --> 00:10:15,906
We heard that he was in town,
but none of us have seen him.
261
00:10:15,907 --> 00:10:17,908
You know, you can give
all kinds of reasons
262
00:10:17,909 --> 00:10:19,785
why marriages don't work.
263
00:10:19,786 --> 00:10:24,331
I went from my parents' house
to my first marriage.
264
00:10:24,332 --> 00:10:26,500
I was 23, you know?
265
00:10:26,501 --> 00:10:29,170
And it was a marriage
that never should have been.
266
00:10:30,672 --> 00:10:34,424
Marriage number two was to
a lovely man named Lee Guber.
267
00:10:34,425 --> 00:10:36,218
Does he share your career?
268
00:10:36,219 --> 00:10:38,303
DOLLY:
Well, he--he shares it
269
00:10:38,304 --> 00:10:40,681
to the point that
he knows it makes me happy
270
00:10:40,682 --> 00:10:42,141
and he's proud of me.
271
00:10:42,142 --> 00:10:43,309
CREW MEMBER:
Stand by.
272
00:10:47,355 --> 00:10:48,565
DOLLY:
Oh.
273
00:10:52,944 --> 00:10:55,863
I was in my 30s
when Jackie was born.
274
00:10:55,864 --> 00:10:57,656
My daughter's a blessing.
275
00:10:57,657 --> 00:10:59,700
My world came together.
276
00:10:59,701 --> 00:11:01,952
I mean, I was already
on the Today show,
277
00:11:01,953 --> 00:11:05,289
and I'd had
three miscarriages.
278
00:11:05,290 --> 00:11:07,916
And now I had everything.
279
00:11:07,917 --> 00:11:10,127
Today people
are more accepting.
280
00:11:10,128 --> 00:11:12,004
You can bring your kid
to the office.
281
00:11:12,005 --> 00:11:13,338
In those days,
282
00:11:13,339 --> 00:11:15,549
if I had brought Jackie
into the studio,
283
00:11:15,550 --> 00:11:18,135
it would be
as if I had brought
284
00:11:18,136 --> 00:11:20,679
a dog who was not housebroken.
285
00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:24,099
KATIE: This idea
of a working mother
286
00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:26,935
seemed like an oxymoron.
287
00:11:26,936 --> 00:11:30,397
People didn't think
you could take care of a child
288
00:11:30,398 --> 00:11:34,526
or take care of a husband
and have a full-time job.
289
00:11:34,527 --> 00:11:37,404
BARBARA: I took two days off,
and that was it.
290
00:11:37,405 --> 00:11:38,780
HOST:
We're right in the middle
291
00:11:38,781 --> 00:11:40,616
of a fascinating time
in your family life.
292
00:11:40,617 --> 00:11:41,825
Your daughter's--
293
00:11:41,826 --> 00:11:44,161
- Yes, it's her first day
of school this week.
294
00:11:44,162 --> 00:11:45,162
She's fine.
295
00:11:45,163 --> 00:11:46,622
We're scared to death,
you know.
296
00:11:46,623 --> 00:11:49,625
She'll drink her juice and eat
her cookies, and we'll cry.
297
00:11:49,626 --> 00:11:51,376
You know, I can see
she's gonna leave us,
298
00:11:51,377 --> 00:11:53,378
and she'll say, "Don't be
nervous, Mommy and Daddy.
299
00:11:53,379 --> 00:11:54,546
Now don't cry," you know.
300
00:11:54,547 --> 00:11:55,714
"I'll be all right."
301
00:11:55,715 --> 00:11:56,965
- Do you stay for long?
No, you just--
302
00:11:56,966 --> 00:11:58,383
- The first time?
- Yes.
303
00:11:58,384 --> 00:11:59,593
- Do you really care
about this?
304
00:11:59,594 --> 00:12:02,638
- I'm fascinated, yes.
[laughter]
305
00:12:02,639 --> 00:12:05,182
BARBARA: Lee was working
mostly nights.
306
00:12:05,183 --> 00:12:06,558
He was in show business.
307
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,977
I was working
in the early morning.
308
00:12:08,978 --> 00:12:10,938
We didn't see that much
of each other.
309
00:12:10,939 --> 00:12:12,814
Little by little, we--
310
00:12:12,815 --> 00:12:15,651
we just had less and less
to say to each other.
311
00:12:15,652 --> 00:12:19,446
This was
the storybook love affair,
312
00:12:19,447 --> 00:12:21,531
and we wanted it to last
313
00:12:21,532 --> 00:12:23,992
and knew how hard
you worked at it
314
00:12:23,993 --> 00:12:27,287
and then felt really great
disappointment that it didn't.
315
00:12:27,288 --> 00:12:30,624
- You have to accept
inevitability.
316
00:12:30,625 --> 00:12:33,418
It was just the time
317
00:12:33,419 --> 00:12:36,463
for that point in our lives
to close.
318
00:12:36,464 --> 00:12:38,423
BARBARA: That was
very difficult for me,
319
00:12:38,424 --> 00:12:43,011
because by that time,
we had a four-year-old child.
320
00:12:43,012 --> 00:12:46,765
I don't think that I was
very good at marriage.
321
00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:51,186
It may be that my career
was just too important.
322
00:12:51,187 --> 00:12:53,981
It may have been
that I was a difficult person
323
00:12:53,982 --> 00:12:55,482
to be married to
324
00:12:55,483 --> 00:12:59,027
and I wasn't willing,
perhaps, to give that much.
325
00:12:59,028 --> 00:13:00,696
You know, there are
those people who say
326
00:13:00,697 --> 00:13:03,115
that a woman has to be
twice as aggressive.
327
00:13:03,116 --> 00:13:05,492
She has to be twice
as hardworking
328
00:13:05,493 --> 00:13:08,954
to hold the same
executive position as a man.
329
00:13:08,955 --> 00:13:10,706
But through it all,
330
00:13:10,707 --> 00:13:14,835
there was this career
that I felt I needed to have.
331
00:13:14,836 --> 00:13:17,087
And I loved it.
332
00:13:17,088 --> 00:13:20,090
[dynamic music]
333
00:13:20,091 --> 00:13:23,593
♪ ♪
334
00:13:23,594 --> 00:13:25,220
- Good evening.
I'm Roger Grimsby.
335
00:13:25,221 --> 00:13:26,305
Here now the news.
336
00:13:26,306 --> 00:13:28,849
- Evening news,
that was journalism.
337
00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:30,517
Morning news, mm.
338
00:13:30,518 --> 00:13:35,564
But the evening-news anchor
was the face of the network.
339
00:13:35,565 --> 00:13:37,774
This is where the guys played.
340
00:13:37,775 --> 00:13:40,986
You know,
this was all about status.
341
00:13:40,987 --> 00:13:42,404
CREW MEMBER:
15.
342
00:13:42,405 --> 00:13:44,740
CONNIE: The person
who dominated evening news
343
00:13:44,741 --> 00:13:48,035
was Walter Cronkite,
who worked at CBS.
344
00:13:48,036 --> 00:13:51,455
He was avuncular, as they say.
345
00:13:51,456 --> 00:13:53,999
He was credible.
He was honest.
346
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,209
He was Uncle Walter.
347
00:13:56,210 --> 00:14:01,132
So the evening news was
the crème de la crème.
348
00:14:02,467 --> 00:14:06,261
CYNTHIA: It was a big deal
when Barbara left
349
00:14:06,262 --> 00:14:08,513
the official co-host
of the Today show
350
00:14:08,514 --> 00:14:11,058
and she goes to ABC
351
00:14:11,059 --> 00:14:13,393
as the co-anchor
with Harry Reasoner
352
00:14:13,394 --> 00:14:15,313
of the evening news.
353
00:14:16,773 --> 00:14:18,065
This was the big time.
354
00:14:18,066 --> 00:14:19,066
PERSON:
Ladies and gentlemen,
355
00:14:19,067 --> 00:14:20,650
if we can get started, please.
356
00:14:20,651 --> 00:14:22,152
OPRAH:
It was such a big victory.
357
00:14:22,153 --> 00:14:24,571
I think, at the time,
she got a million dollars.
358
00:14:24,572 --> 00:14:25,947
And we were all like,
359
00:14:25,948 --> 00:14:28,575
Barbara Walters
is getting a million dollars!
360
00:14:28,576 --> 00:14:32,370
And as a young anchorwoman
who was making $22,000,
361
00:14:32,371 --> 00:14:36,333
that was hope for me
that if she can get a million,
362
00:14:36,334 --> 00:14:39,169
maybe I can get $50,000
one day.
363
00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:41,755
BARBARA:
5 years, $5 million.
364
00:14:41,756 --> 00:14:44,341
I don't feel that I'm coming
here to save the news.
365
00:14:44,342 --> 00:14:46,968
I'm coming here
to add to the strength
366
00:14:46,969 --> 00:14:48,970
that Harry has already brought
to this program.
367
00:14:48,971 --> 00:14:50,555
- [imitating Barbara]
I want to take this opportunity
368
00:14:50,556 --> 00:14:52,599
to apologize to NBC.
369
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,309
I don't like leaving.
370
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:56,561
Please trust me,
it's not sour grapes,
371
00:14:56,562 --> 00:14:59,397
but rather
that another network
372
00:14:59,398 --> 00:15:01,608
recognizes in me
a great talent
373
00:15:01,609 --> 00:15:03,985
for delivering
relevant news stories
374
00:15:03,986 --> 00:15:07,198
with crystal clarity
to millions of Americans.
375
00:15:08,449 --> 00:15:13,036
BARBARA: When I left NBC,
the papers were awful to me.
376
00:15:13,037 --> 00:15:15,122
I became
the Million Dollar Baby.
377
00:15:15,123 --> 00:15:19,835
- It just reverberated
all over the country.
378
00:15:19,836 --> 00:15:23,797
It was at a time when
the women's movement
379
00:15:23,798 --> 00:15:26,133
was really gaining steam.
380
00:15:26,134 --> 00:15:27,801
And suddenly we had a woman
381
00:15:27,802 --> 00:15:31,221
who was going to be delivering
the news every single night.
382
00:15:31,222 --> 00:15:33,640
- Her contract, for a rumored
million dollars a year,
383
00:15:33,641 --> 00:15:35,600
specifies that she'll co-anchor
384
00:15:35,601 --> 00:15:37,269
the ABC Evening News.
385
00:15:37,270 --> 00:15:39,229
- So the struggle
has been to keep the packaging
386
00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:41,857
from dominating
the contents of the package.
387
00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:44,526
But now a network has hired
a lady to read the news,
388
00:15:44,527 --> 00:15:47,654
plus other studio chores,
for $1 million a year.
389
00:15:47,655 --> 00:15:48,947
And the intramural worry is
390
00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:50,574
that maybe
the struggle has been lost.
391
00:15:50,575 --> 00:15:52,409
- I don't feel I have
to rationalize it.
392
00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:57,080
I was offered that money
by both ABC and NBC.
393
00:15:57,081 --> 00:16:00,041
I can't imagine anyone
turning it down.
394
00:16:00,042 --> 00:16:02,210
VICTOR:
There was all this excitement.
395
00:16:02,211 --> 00:16:04,212
A star's coming to ABC.
396
00:16:04,213 --> 00:16:07,966
There was a pink typewriter
that was delivered.
397
00:16:07,967 --> 00:16:09,634
- It's just one piece
of copy, Mary?
398
00:16:09,635 --> 00:16:11,761
MARY: Sorry?
- One piece of copy?
399
00:16:11,762 --> 00:16:13,305
MARY: That's all.
- Okay.
400
00:16:13,306 --> 00:16:15,223
VICTOR: And people would say,
"Harry, what do you think?
401
00:16:15,224 --> 00:16:16,641
"Let's go look at the new set.
402
00:16:16,642 --> 00:16:18,435
They're building a set
for the both of you."
403
00:16:18,436 --> 00:16:21,271
And he kind of grumbled, like,
oh, well, whatever, you know?
404
00:16:21,272 --> 00:16:22,480
Like that kind of thing.
405
00:16:22,481 --> 00:16:24,191
- Ready, three?
- One.
406
00:16:24,192 --> 00:16:26,026
- Take three.
Cue Barbara.
407
00:16:26,027 --> 00:16:27,694
- Well, tonight
has finally come for me,
408
00:16:27,695 --> 00:16:29,696
and I'm very pleased to be
with you, Harry,
409
00:16:29,697 --> 00:16:30,947
and with ABC News.
410
00:16:30,948 --> 00:16:33,909
Here was my chance--
historic, they told me--
411
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:36,703
to be the first
female co-anchor
412
00:16:36,704 --> 00:16:39,289
of a network news program.
413
00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:43,668
Well, I thought,
what an opportunity.
414
00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:45,754
It was a mistake.
415
00:16:45,755 --> 00:16:48,256
CYNTHIA:
Harry Reasoner made no bones
416
00:16:48,257 --> 00:16:51,009
about the fact that
he did not want her there.
417
00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:52,677
He didn't want any co-anchor,
418
00:16:52,678 --> 00:16:54,346
and he certainly
didn't want her.
419
00:16:54,347 --> 00:16:56,473
- The decision was
to welcome you as I would
420
00:16:56,474 --> 00:16:59,017
any respected and competent
colleague of any sex
421
00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:01,269
by noting that I've kept time
on your stories
422
00:17:01,270 --> 00:17:02,604
and mine tonight.
423
00:17:02,605 --> 00:17:05,106
You owe me four minutes.
- [laughs]
424
00:17:05,107 --> 00:17:08,526
- I think most people had
this attitude of,
425
00:17:08,527 --> 00:17:10,320
who does she think she is?
426
00:17:10,321 --> 00:17:15,033
We're not getting our news
from some lady, some chick.
427
00:17:15,034 --> 00:17:17,744
- From five seconds down?
CREW MEMBER: Right. Ten...
428
00:17:17,745 --> 00:17:19,537
- I'd rather have
ten seconds down.
429
00:17:19,538 --> 00:17:22,082
KATIE: It gave rise
to so much sexism
430
00:17:22,083 --> 00:17:24,292
that made it
even harder for her.
431
00:17:24,293 --> 00:17:25,961
BILLIE EILISH:
♪ So you're a tough guy ♪
432
00:17:25,962 --> 00:17:27,754
♪ "Like it really rough"
guy ♪
433
00:17:27,755 --> 00:17:29,547
♪ "Just can't get enough"
guy ♪
434
00:17:29,548 --> 00:17:32,008
♪ "Chest always so puffed"
guy ♪
435
00:17:32,009 --> 00:17:34,928
♪ I'm that bad type,
"make your mama sad" type ♪
436
00:17:34,929 --> 00:17:36,513
♪ "Make your girlfriend mad"
type ♪
437
00:17:36,514 --> 00:17:38,598
- Here at 9:30 Eastern time.
438
00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:42,519
BILLIE EILISH:
♪ I'm the bad guy ♪
439
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,728
Duh.
440
00:17:43,729 --> 00:17:46,481
♪ ♪
441
00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:50,485
- In 1976, I was
a production assistant at ABC.
442
00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:52,112
- Thank you very much,
Barbara.
443
00:17:52,113 --> 00:17:53,280
Good night.
444
00:17:53,281 --> 00:17:55,156
BOB: There was
absolutely no chemistry,
445
00:17:55,157 --> 00:17:57,033
either on air or on set.
446
00:17:57,034 --> 00:17:58,868
Everybody was aware of that,
447
00:17:58,869 --> 00:18:02,247
and we all felt kind of
uncomfortable about it.
448
00:18:02,248 --> 00:18:04,583
- I have to shoot an arrow
into Barbara Walters.
449
00:18:04,584 --> 00:18:07,127
- Ah, You mean you're
making her fall in love
450
00:18:07,128 --> 00:18:08,753
with Harry Reasoner?
- No.
451
00:18:08,754 --> 00:18:10,130
Harry just paid me
to shoot her.
452
00:18:10,131 --> 00:18:11,506
- Just didn't care.
- Straightaway.
453
00:18:11,507 --> 00:18:12,716
- It's nice to see you.
454
00:18:12,717 --> 00:18:14,092
- Can we also, by the way,
one of these days,
455
00:18:14,093 --> 00:18:15,427
have all the same pictures
and everything?
456
00:18:15,428 --> 00:18:16,720
- Oh, no.
457
00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:19,014
BARBARA: I would walk
into that studio,
458
00:18:19,015 --> 00:18:22,100
and Harry would be sitting
with the stagehands,
459
00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:24,436
and they'd all crack jokes
and ignore me.
460
00:18:24,437 --> 00:18:25,895
And no one would talk to me.
461
00:18:25,896 --> 00:18:28,023
There was not a woman
on the staff.
462
00:18:28,024 --> 00:18:29,316
Good evening.
463
00:18:29,317 --> 00:18:31,151
VICTOR:
It was awkward.
464
00:18:31,152 --> 00:18:33,778
The show began.
They did their small talk.
465
00:18:33,779 --> 00:18:36,031
HARRY: From Barbara and me,
good night.
466
00:18:36,032 --> 00:18:37,824
VICTOR:
It ended.
467
00:18:37,825 --> 00:18:40,201
No one said anything to her.
468
00:18:40,202 --> 00:18:43,246
She got up,
and I escorted her back.
469
00:18:43,247 --> 00:18:45,957
This memory was like yesterday.
470
00:18:45,958 --> 00:18:47,584
We're walking back.
471
00:18:47,585 --> 00:18:49,669
Her head was down,
472
00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:54,132
and her fists were clenched
by her side, looking down.
473
00:18:54,133 --> 00:18:58,471
Fists so tight, I felt it
walking next to her.
474
00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:02,807
And she was hurt.
475
00:19:02,808 --> 00:19:05,894
BARBARA: I thought it was the
end of my professional career
476
00:19:05,895 --> 00:19:08,063
after all these years
of working.
477
00:19:08,064 --> 00:19:11,650
It was the most painful period
in my life.
478
00:19:13,986 --> 00:19:16,237
- ABC announced today
that Roone Arledge,
479
00:19:16,238 --> 00:19:18,448
who is now president
of ABC Sports,
480
00:19:18,449 --> 00:19:21,242
will head a newly formed
news and sports division,
481
00:19:21,243 --> 00:19:22,994
effective June 1st.
482
00:19:22,995 --> 00:19:25,789
VICTOR: Roone Arledge was
the president of ABC Sports,
483
00:19:25,790 --> 00:19:27,457
and he created that great
484
00:19:27,458 --> 00:19:29,292
"sports as entertainment"
concept--
485
00:19:29,293 --> 00:19:30,835
Wide World of Sports,
486
00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:33,338
multiple cameras
and video replays,
487
00:19:33,339 --> 00:19:35,715
stop action in the Olympics.
488
00:19:35,716 --> 00:19:38,635
So he was brought to ABC News
to change ABC News,
489
00:19:38,636 --> 00:19:40,428
to bring it
into kind of a modern,
490
00:19:40,429 --> 00:19:42,847
more entertaining era.
491
00:19:42,848 --> 00:19:44,557
BARBARA:
Roone Arledge was my savior.
492
00:19:44,558 --> 00:19:48,061
He had the vision to say,
493
00:19:48,062 --> 00:19:49,813
"we can do something
with her,"
494
00:19:49,814 --> 00:19:52,148
and made me a roving reporter.
495
00:19:52,149 --> 00:19:55,944
And he gave me free rein
and said, "Go.
496
00:19:55,945 --> 00:19:58,280
Go get them.
Go get those interviews."
497
00:20:00,116 --> 00:20:04,244
Roone bet on me.
It was a big gamble.
498
00:20:04,245 --> 00:20:07,288
REPORTER 1: No Arab leader
has publicly visited Israel
499
00:20:07,289 --> 00:20:10,583
since the Jewish state
was founded in 1948,
500
00:20:10,584 --> 00:20:12,669
a period during which Israel
and the Arabs
501
00:20:12,670 --> 00:20:14,546
have fought
four major conflicts.
502
00:20:14,547 --> 00:20:16,172
REPORTER 2:
But now all obstacles
503
00:20:16,173 --> 00:20:17,465
appear to have been removed
504
00:20:17,466 --> 00:20:19,467
for peace discussions
in Jerusalem
505
00:20:19,468 --> 00:20:21,261
between
Egyptian President Sadat
506
00:20:21,262 --> 00:20:23,096
and Israeli Prime Minister
Begin.
507
00:20:23,097 --> 00:20:26,891
- If President Sadat wants
an official formal invitation
508
00:20:26,892 --> 00:20:28,768
from me, he has it.
509
00:20:28,769 --> 00:20:30,103
BARBARA:
Everybody said, "what?
510
00:20:30,104 --> 00:20:32,522
An Egyptian president
going to Israel?"
511
00:20:32,523 --> 00:20:34,482
And so all hell broke loose.
512
00:20:34,483 --> 00:20:36,025
This is Barbara Walters
in Israel,
513
00:20:36,026 --> 00:20:37,318
where the country is racing
514
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:38,945
through last-minute
preparations
515
00:20:38,946 --> 00:20:40,530
for the arrival
tomorrow evening
516
00:20:40,531 --> 00:20:42,824
of Egyptian President
Anwar Sadat.
517
00:20:42,825 --> 00:20:45,034
I arrived in Tel Aviv,
518
00:20:45,035 --> 00:20:47,537
got a call
from Roone Arledge saying,
519
00:20:47,538 --> 00:20:50,165
"Walter Cronkite is in Cairo.
520
00:20:50,166 --> 00:20:52,584
John Chancellor is on his way.
Get there."
521
00:20:52,585 --> 00:20:55,128
We rented a plane.
522
00:20:55,129 --> 00:20:58,548
I was so exhausted,
I fell asleep...
523
00:20:58,549 --> 00:21:00,925
woke up, looked down,
I thought it was a mirage--
524
00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:03,136
I saw the pyramids.
525
00:21:03,137 --> 00:21:05,972
And when I got off...
526
00:21:05,973 --> 00:21:09,517
waiting there
were John Chancellor
527
00:21:09,518 --> 00:21:10,935
and Walter Cronkite.
528
00:21:10,936 --> 00:21:13,313
And they were not very happy
to see me.
529
00:21:13,314 --> 00:21:14,439
CONNIE:
All of a sudden,
530
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,232
Barbara shows up
on the tarmac,
531
00:21:16,233 --> 00:21:18,359
as Walter describes it,
532
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,572
as if she's a substitute
for a game, going...
533
00:21:22,573 --> 00:21:26,367
And Anwar Sadat sees Barbara
and goes, "Barbara!"
534
00:21:26,368 --> 00:21:28,578
- You okay, Barbara?
- Yes, I am.
535
00:21:28,579 --> 00:21:30,371
- You will be joining me.
- Hi, how are you?
536
00:21:30,372 --> 00:21:32,373
- Walter. Walter.
- Good to see you.
537
00:21:32,374 --> 00:21:33,541
How are you?
538
00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:34,751
And good luck.
539
00:21:34,752 --> 00:21:36,544
- How do you find it
with Barbara?
540
00:21:36,545 --> 00:21:38,338
[laughter]
541
00:21:38,339 --> 00:21:41,382
- I hadn't planned it
that way.
542
00:21:41,383 --> 00:21:44,260
[indistinct chatter, applause]
543
00:21:44,261 --> 00:21:47,764
- Mr. President,
Foreign Minister Moshe Dayan
544
00:21:47,765 --> 00:21:49,557
and Prime Minister Begin
545
00:21:49,558 --> 00:21:51,559
have said
that they are willing
546
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,020
to talk the principles
of peace with you.
547
00:21:54,021 --> 00:21:57,232
They are willing to talk
specifics and substance.
548
00:21:57,233 --> 00:21:59,025
Are you willing to do this?
549
00:21:59,026 --> 00:22:01,819
- Sure. For sure,
I am willing to do this.
550
00:22:01,820 --> 00:22:04,155
If they are ready, I am ready.
551
00:22:04,156 --> 00:22:06,282
- Go ahead, Barbara.
- Thank you, Barbara.
552
00:22:06,283 --> 00:22:10,286
BARBARA: On the plane
from Egypt to Israel,
553
00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:13,039
I asked Anwar Sadat--
slipped him a note
554
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,375
and asked if he would sit
and do an interview with me.
555
00:22:15,376 --> 00:22:18,503
Yes, no, alone,
or with Prime Minister Begin.
556
00:22:18,504 --> 00:22:21,506
And he said yes, but alone.
557
00:22:21,507 --> 00:22:22,924
PETER:
On that plane also will be
558
00:22:22,925 --> 00:22:25,385
my co-commentator
and distinguished lady
559
00:22:25,386 --> 00:22:28,471
who went to Egypt today
from Israel, Barbara Walters.
560
00:22:28,472 --> 00:22:30,223
And there is Barbara
coming down the stairs--
561
00:22:30,224 --> 00:22:31,599
Barbara Walters.
562
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,351
VICTOR:
She turned out to be,
563
00:22:33,352 --> 00:22:35,812
in the best possible
definition of the word,
564
00:22:35,813 --> 00:22:37,021
a killer.
565
00:22:37,022 --> 00:22:38,649
BARBARA:
Okay, we are ready.
566
00:22:40,025 --> 00:22:43,069
BARBARA: I went to Jerusalem
and did an interview
567
00:22:43,070 --> 00:22:44,946
with Prime Minister Begin
that night.
568
00:22:44,947 --> 00:22:46,489
We have to do this,
very quickly, okay.
569
00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:47,532
Do not answer me.
570
00:22:47,533 --> 00:22:49,285
I'm just going to repeat
my questions.
571
00:22:55,291 --> 00:22:57,625
[laughter]
I'll look at you.
572
00:22:57,626 --> 00:22:59,335
- I don't know
how I ever manage
573
00:22:59,336 --> 00:23:00,795
to get through these
interviews with you.
574
00:23:00,796 --> 00:23:02,839
He said, "Barbara,
I forgot to tell you.
575
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,424
"I said to Anwar Sadat,
576
00:23:04,425 --> 00:23:06,259
"for the sake
of our friend Barbara,
577
00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:08,261
"would you do
an interview together?
578
00:23:08,262 --> 00:23:10,054
And, Barbara, he said yes."
579
00:23:10,055 --> 00:23:11,431
I said, "Mr. Prime Minister,
580
00:23:11,432 --> 00:23:13,725
you're the best agent
I've ever had."
581
00:23:13,726 --> 00:23:15,643
- Both leaders
sat down together
582
00:23:15,644 --> 00:23:18,104
with ABC's Barbara Walters
for an exclusive interview.
583
00:23:18,105 --> 00:23:21,316
And it was a fascinating,
in my judgment, look
584
00:23:21,317 --> 00:23:23,151
at history being made
in front of us.
585
00:23:23,152 --> 00:23:27,322
- President Sadat,
you said that your people,
586
00:23:27,323 --> 00:23:30,325
the Arab people,
would not concede one inch
587
00:23:30,326 --> 00:23:32,243
of occupied land.
588
00:23:32,244 --> 00:23:34,704
Is that negotiable?
589
00:23:34,705 --> 00:23:36,539
- Not at all.
BARBARA: Not at all.
590
00:23:36,540 --> 00:23:38,124
- Yes, frankly, not at all,
591
00:23:38,125 --> 00:23:42,211
but it doesn't mean at all
that we should not try.
592
00:23:42,212 --> 00:23:44,297
BARBARA: So there might be
a ray of light.
593
00:23:44,298 --> 00:23:47,091
There might be
a somewhat different position
594
00:23:47,092 --> 00:23:48,468
down the road.
595
00:23:48,469 --> 00:23:50,887
- [laughs]
596
00:23:50,888 --> 00:23:53,097
You are always like this,
Barbara.
597
00:23:53,098 --> 00:23:54,933
[laughter]
598
00:23:54,934 --> 00:23:57,560
- I try to be.
- On everything.
599
00:23:57,561 --> 00:23:58,895
Well--
600
00:23:58,896 --> 00:24:01,147
- This is what people are
going to be asking of you.
601
00:24:01,148 --> 00:24:04,484
- Politics can't be conducted
like this, like--
602
00:24:04,485 --> 00:24:06,194
- I have to keep trying.
603
00:24:06,195 --> 00:24:08,446
KATIE:
It was history making,
604
00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:11,741
but it also showed
Walter Cronkite
605
00:24:11,742 --> 00:24:14,243
and John Chancellor
who was boss.
606
00:24:14,244 --> 00:24:16,746
She totally edged them out,
607
00:24:16,747 --> 00:24:19,582
which must have been
so sweet for her.
608
00:24:19,583 --> 00:24:22,293
WALTER: But if I could just
press you one more moment...
609
00:24:22,294 --> 00:24:24,921
KATIE: Walter Cronkite later
interviewed the two of them.
610
00:24:24,922 --> 00:24:28,925
But, honestly, if you're not
first, you're not anything.
611
00:24:28,926 --> 00:24:30,927
VICTOR:
And then...
612
00:24:30,928 --> 00:24:33,681
the real Barbara Walters
career began.
613
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,143
CREW MEMBER:
All right, everybody, quiet.
614
00:24:39,144 --> 00:24:40,812
Take 201.
615
00:24:40,813 --> 00:24:42,982
NARRATOR:
The Barbara Walters Special.
616
00:24:44,817 --> 00:24:46,985
- Good evening.
I'm Barbara Walters.
617
00:24:46,986 --> 00:24:49,070
The million-dollar contract
618
00:24:49,071 --> 00:24:51,406
was not just
for me to do the news,
619
00:24:51,407 --> 00:24:54,909
but for me to do a series of
one-hour prime-time specials.
620
00:24:54,910 --> 00:24:57,328
You're not embarrassed. I am.
JIMMY: I'm not.
621
00:24:57,329 --> 00:24:59,580
- Well, then, okay,
if you're not, I'll go on.
622
00:24:59,581 --> 00:25:01,290
Do you sleep in a double bed
or twin bed?
623
00:25:01,291 --> 00:25:02,709
- Double bed.
- Double bed.
624
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:04,544
When I was growing up
in St. Louis,
625
00:25:04,545 --> 00:25:05,878
I was obsessed with TV.
626
00:25:05,879 --> 00:25:09,173
And Barbara Walters,
to me, just always represented
627
00:25:09,174 --> 00:25:10,758
event television.
628
00:25:10,759 --> 00:25:12,552
- If you were a man,
you would not marry
629
00:25:12,553 --> 00:25:14,345
a woman with a career.
- No.
630
00:25:14,346 --> 00:25:16,597
I wouldn't be that big a fool.
631
00:25:16,598 --> 00:25:19,517
- This was a day
when big stars--
632
00:25:19,518 --> 00:25:23,271
you didn't get to see them
being interviewed anywhere.
633
00:25:23,272 --> 00:25:25,606
- Stick around
for a while longer, will you?
634
00:25:25,607 --> 00:25:27,692
- I sure want to.
635
00:25:27,693 --> 00:25:29,819
BARBARA: I was criticized
for doing specials
636
00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:32,029
that had people in the news
637
00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:33,614
along with celebrities.
638
00:25:33,615 --> 00:25:35,074
You can't do both.
639
00:25:35,075 --> 00:25:37,160
Well, you can, and I did.
640
00:25:37,161 --> 00:25:39,829
And today we see it
all the time.
641
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:43,374
You are a man
of secrecy and mystery.
642
00:25:43,375 --> 00:25:44,459
Are you married?
643
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:46,794
- [speaking Spanish]
- [speaking Spanish]
644
00:25:46,795 --> 00:25:48,629
- In a personal conversation
between us two,
645
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:50,590
we can talk about that,
but why do we have to talk
646
00:25:50,591 --> 00:25:52,216
about this
for the large public?
647
00:25:52,217 --> 00:25:54,010
- You don't have to talk
about it.
648
00:25:54,011 --> 00:25:56,721
But there are people who
are very curious about you.
649
00:25:56,722 --> 00:25:59,599
And it is interesting
that a simple question like,
650
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,602
are you married,
not very complicated,
651
00:26:02,603 --> 00:26:04,604
causes such an uproar.
652
00:26:04,605 --> 00:26:07,857
- [speaking Spanish]
- Formally, no.
653
00:26:07,858 --> 00:26:10,276
CYNTHIA: Interviews
were always a staple, right?
654
00:26:10,277 --> 00:26:13,863
But interviews tended
to be about issues.
655
00:26:13,864 --> 00:26:16,616
This was a profile
of the person.
656
00:26:16,617 --> 00:26:18,409
- I know you don't like
personal questions.
657
00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:19,786
- Uh-huh.
658
00:26:19,787 --> 00:26:21,621
- So I will start by asking you
something very simple
659
00:26:21,622 --> 00:26:23,372
and easy for you to answer.
- Okay.
660
00:26:23,373 --> 00:26:27,251
- Will you tell me all about
your first sexual experience?
661
00:26:27,252 --> 00:26:30,588
- My first sexual experi--
[laughter]
662
00:26:30,589 --> 00:26:34,050
ANDY: Have all of her clips
aged great?
663
00:26:34,051 --> 00:26:37,053
No, but at the time,
664
00:26:37,054 --> 00:26:40,264
she was very representative
665
00:26:40,265 --> 00:26:43,768
of where the line was
in the culture,
666
00:26:43,769 --> 00:26:47,522
and she knew how to dance
just on the line.
667
00:26:47,523 --> 00:26:48,731
- Sure.
668
00:26:48,732 --> 00:26:49,941
BARBARA: What's it like to be
a homosexual?
669
00:26:49,942 --> 00:26:51,192
Are you happy
with your weight?
670
00:26:51,193 --> 00:26:52,652
Do you drink too much?
671
00:26:52,653 --> 00:26:54,529
- And I wanted to know,
by the way.
672
00:26:54,530 --> 00:26:57,115
- This is only a small mansion
on the hill, Barbara.
673
00:26:57,116 --> 00:26:59,534
KATIE: Barbara did Cribs
before Cribs was Cribs.
674
00:26:59,535 --> 00:27:01,536
- This is where I sleep.
- Yes.
675
00:27:01,537 --> 00:27:03,830
- This is where I'm going
to make my children.
676
00:27:03,831 --> 00:27:07,291
- We have 85,000 feet
of home movies.
677
00:27:07,292 --> 00:27:09,502
- She went
into people's new homes.
678
00:27:09,503 --> 00:27:11,170
She went
into people's closets.
679
00:27:11,171 --> 00:27:12,880
She went
into people's kitchens.
680
00:27:12,881 --> 00:27:14,632
- Oh, God,
that's enough, Barbara.
681
00:27:14,633 --> 00:27:16,884
KATIE: I remember
she sat on the floor
682
00:27:16,885 --> 00:27:20,137
with Eddie Murphy
when she profiled him.
683
00:27:20,138 --> 00:27:21,681
- [laughs]
684
00:27:21,682 --> 00:27:25,393
KATIE: At the time, it was
a very different approach.
685
00:27:25,394 --> 00:27:28,604
It wasn't a chair
across from a chair.
686
00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:30,231
- I don't want to hurt
your feelings,
687
00:27:30,232 --> 00:27:33,609
but this is the scroungiest
Jeep I have ever--
688
00:27:33,610 --> 00:27:34,986
The upholstery is coming out.
689
00:27:34,987 --> 00:27:36,320
CYNTHIA:
In the beginning,
690
00:27:36,321 --> 00:27:40,074
it was very controversial
to put hard-news interviews...
691
00:27:40,075 --> 00:27:42,618
- It's been eight months since
that assassination attempt.
692
00:27:42,619 --> 00:27:45,371
CYNTHIA:
Next to celebrity interviews.
693
00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:46,747
And there were many who felt
694
00:27:46,748 --> 00:27:49,625
that she was just
lowering standards.
695
00:27:49,626 --> 00:27:51,711
- Do you believe in fidelity
when you're married?
696
00:27:51,712 --> 00:27:54,548
- What's fidelity?
- Staying with one woman only.
697
00:27:56,884 --> 00:28:00,344
Nobody's listening.
- [laughs]
698
00:28:00,345 --> 00:28:02,513
BOB:
She had a vision back then
699
00:28:02,514 --> 00:28:04,348
that celebrities are news.
700
00:28:04,349 --> 00:28:06,225
She was criticized
in that regard,
701
00:28:06,226 --> 00:28:07,727
because she actually believed,
702
00:28:07,728 --> 00:28:09,562
and I think she turned out
to be right,
703
00:28:09,563 --> 00:28:10,855
that they were news makers...
704
00:28:10,856 --> 00:28:12,523
CREW MEMBER:
And action.
705
00:28:12,524 --> 00:28:14,191
BOB:
She was practicing
706
00:28:14,192 --> 00:28:17,486
the art of journalism when
she was interviewing them.
707
00:28:17,487 --> 00:28:18,988
- Are we doing this for real?
708
00:28:18,989 --> 00:28:21,574
- Yeah. Yeah.
- Oh. [chuckles]
709
00:28:21,575 --> 00:28:22,992
BARBARA:
Okay.
710
00:28:22,993 --> 00:28:25,620
- She asked me
to be a guest on her show.
711
00:28:25,621 --> 00:28:27,413
And, of course,
I was very flattered,
712
00:28:27,414 --> 00:28:29,165
because it was a big deal.
713
00:28:29,166 --> 00:28:31,959
And I had a lot of fun with
her when she interviewed me.
714
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,128
I can be so boring.
715
00:28:34,129 --> 00:28:35,880
- Not now, please.
- No.
716
00:28:35,881 --> 00:28:37,214
- The next interview.
717
00:28:37,215 --> 00:28:39,300
BETTE: It wasn't as stiff
as it usually was.
718
00:28:39,301 --> 00:28:41,761
It was a lot more fun.
You'd laugh. She'd laugh.
719
00:28:41,762 --> 00:28:42,845
Okay.
720
00:28:42,846 --> 00:28:46,182
She was infamous
for asking questions
721
00:28:46,183 --> 00:28:47,975
that just came
out of the blue.
722
00:28:47,976 --> 00:28:49,644
- What do you think
of the way you look?
723
00:28:49,645 --> 00:28:51,604
- I think I look great.
- No, no kidding.
724
00:28:51,605 --> 00:28:53,064
- No kidding.
- Why do I say "no kidding"?
725
00:28:53,065 --> 00:28:55,232
- Yeah, hey.
- Because...
726
00:28:55,233 --> 00:28:58,361
- Hey, hey, get
out of my house.
727
00:28:58,362 --> 00:29:01,197
She actually had
a lot of spunk.
728
00:29:01,198 --> 00:29:02,949
She was fearless.
729
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:05,117
- Do you think you're sexy?
- I know I'm sexy.
730
00:29:05,118 --> 00:29:09,413
- On the scale of one to ten,
what are you?
731
00:29:09,414 --> 00:29:12,792
- What am I,
on a scale of one to ten?
732
00:29:12,793 --> 00:29:16,212
Oh, I think I'm about a 55.
I don't know.
733
00:29:16,213 --> 00:29:18,506
[laughter]
I think I'm a happening girl.
734
00:29:18,507 --> 00:29:20,841
I think what made
Barbara Walters different
735
00:29:20,842 --> 00:29:23,010
from most
of the other interviewers
736
00:29:23,011 --> 00:29:25,221
was that she always
found a way in.
737
00:29:25,222 --> 00:29:27,181
She always did her homework.
738
00:29:27,182 --> 00:29:30,226
And she always put you at ease
739
00:29:30,227 --> 00:29:32,436
and then would sort of go in
for the zinger.
740
00:29:32,437 --> 00:29:33,854
- What about drugs?
741
00:29:33,855 --> 00:29:35,272
BETTE:
I don't really like them.
742
00:29:35,273 --> 00:29:37,274
I can't do them.
I've done them.
743
00:29:37,275 --> 00:29:38,859
- See, I think there are
people who'll see you onstage
744
00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:40,111
and think, that's
where it comes from,
745
00:29:40,112 --> 00:29:41,404
that enormous energy.
BETTE: Oh, no.
746
00:29:41,405 --> 00:29:43,698
Oh, no.
No, that's totally natural.
747
00:29:43,699 --> 00:29:46,283
I considered her a friend,
748
00:29:46,284 --> 00:29:49,161
but I also considered her
a journalist.
749
00:29:49,162 --> 00:29:51,288
So, as much as I liked her,
750
00:29:51,289 --> 00:29:54,375
I felt that
I had to be careful.
751
00:29:54,376 --> 00:29:56,043
She knew a lot.
752
00:29:56,044 --> 00:29:58,254
- I know that you were seeing
a great deal of someone...
753
00:29:58,255 --> 00:29:59,588
- Peter.
- And you just broke up--
754
00:29:59,589 --> 00:30:01,048
Peter Rieger.
- "Just broke up"?
755
00:30:01,049 --> 00:30:02,675
- You didn't?
That's what I read.
756
00:30:02,676 --> 00:30:04,510
- Who told you that?
757
00:30:04,511 --> 00:30:07,054
I didn't even know it myself!
- I read it in the--
758
00:30:07,055 --> 00:30:09,473
- Well, this is embarrassing.
- Oh, that's just fine.
759
00:30:09,474 --> 00:30:11,267
Stop now
because we have to reload.
760
00:30:11,268 --> 00:30:12,768
- Could I have
a glass of water?
761
00:30:12,769 --> 00:30:14,478
- You can have
anything you want.
762
00:30:14,479 --> 00:30:16,605
BETTE: She had poise
and a presentation
763
00:30:16,606 --> 00:30:18,315
that was really elegant.
764
00:30:18,316 --> 00:30:19,734
She was very beautiful.
765
00:30:19,735 --> 00:30:21,777
She was
very beautiful,
766
00:30:21,778 --> 00:30:24,822
except that I would say
that she didn't feel beautiful
767
00:30:24,823 --> 00:30:26,866
or that she didn't feel--
768
00:30:26,867 --> 00:30:29,201
with her upbringing,
she didn't feel
769
00:30:29,202 --> 00:30:30,786
like she belonged--
770
00:30:30,787 --> 00:30:32,830
you know,
some little bit of insecurity.
771
00:30:32,831 --> 00:30:35,541
But she'd never let you
see her sweat,
772
00:30:35,542 --> 00:30:39,045
which is a kind of
a courageousness that is,
773
00:30:39,046 --> 00:30:41,630
you know, really sublime,
really hard.
774
00:30:41,631 --> 00:30:43,758
There are fronts behind fronts,
775
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:45,885
façades behind façades.
776
00:30:45,886 --> 00:30:50,098
And inside is usually,
you know, the kid.
777
00:30:51,725 --> 00:30:53,684
Her father was a showman,
778
00:30:53,685 --> 00:30:56,145
and he had a club
in the Times Square district
779
00:30:56,146 --> 00:30:57,563
called the Latin Quarter.
780
00:30:57,564 --> 00:31:01,567
ANNOUNCER: Lou Walters'
fabulous Latin Quarter revue!
781
00:31:01,568 --> 00:31:05,362
[fanfare playing]
782
00:31:05,363 --> 00:31:07,323
[applause]
783
00:31:07,324 --> 00:31:10,326
- ♪ You're walking
down the street ♪
784
00:31:10,327 --> 00:31:14,330
♪ Suddenly you meet a pair
of lovers dancing along ♪
785
00:31:14,331 --> 00:31:16,582
- I have lived,
I don't mind telling you,
786
00:31:16,583 --> 00:31:20,127
on sex ever since I've been
in show business.
787
00:31:20,128 --> 00:31:21,670
BARBARA:
My father would have been
788
00:31:21,671 --> 00:31:23,380
called an entrepreneur today.
789
00:31:23,381 --> 00:31:27,510
He opened his first nightclub
in Boston.
790
00:31:27,511 --> 00:31:29,595
LOU:
The first impact
791
00:31:29,596 --> 00:31:34,391
that my shows have is glamour.
792
00:31:34,392 --> 00:31:36,352
BARBARA:
The Latin Quarter in Boston
793
00:31:36,353 --> 00:31:39,814
was a huge success.
794
00:31:39,815 --> 00:31:43,400
And it went on from there
to Florida to New York.
795
00:31:43,401 --> 00:31:45,945
I mean, he did these gorgeous,
glorious shows.
796
00:31:45,946 --> 00:31:47,321
I knew every celebrity--
797
00:31:47,322 --> 00:31:50,324
Frank Sinatra and Milton Berle
and Sophie Tucker.
798
00:31:50,325 --> 00:31:51,867
[applause]
799
00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:53,911
On the surface,
it was wonderful.
800
00:31:53,912 --> 00:31:56,205
But, you know, he came home
at 3:00 in the morning.
801
00:31:56,206 --> 00:31:57,957
He slept until
1:00 in the afternoon.
802
00:31:57,958 --> 00:32:00,292
It was a show-business life.
803
00:32:00,293 --> 00:32:02,169
I would sit
in the lighting booth,
804
00:32:02,170 --> 00:32:03,963
because I was too young
to sit downstairs,
805
00:32:03,964 --> 00:32:06,382
and watch the lavish numbers
806
00:32:06,383 --> 00:32:09,803
of beautiful girls
and beautiful costumes.
807
00:32:11,721 --> 00:32:14,515
And then I'd see them
backstage without the makeup.
808
00:32:14,516 --> 00:32:16,851
I'd hear their problems.
809
00:32:16,852 --> 00:32:20,396
I learned that
celebrities were human beings,
810
00:32:20,397 --> 00:32:22,482
and I have never been
in awe...
811
00:32:25,277 --> 00:32:28,654
So that years later,
when I began to do interviews,
812
00:32:28,655 --> 00:32:32,658
I knew that underneath
sometimes the façade
813
00:32:32,659 --> 00:32:34,827
of security or beauty,
so forth,
814
00:32:34,828 --> 00:32:37,913
there was a bleeding heart.
815
00:32:37,914 --> 00:32:39,290
[device beeps]
816
00:32:39,291 --> 00:32:41,209
Okay, we all set?
817
00:32:43,044 --> 00:32:44,420
When you think about it,
818
00:32:44,421 --> 00:32:46,422
if I say, what's the quickest
childhood memory
819
00:32:46,423 --> 00:32:48,215
that comes into your mind,
what does?
820
00:32:48,216 --> 00:32:49,884
Tell me about your childhood.
821
00:32:49,885 --> 00:32:52,803
Tell me the story of your life
in two minutes, you know,
822
00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:56,015
starting with "I was born,"
and then and then and then.
823
00:32:56,016 --> 00:32:57,308
Okay?
- Okay.
824
00:32:57,309 --> 00:33:00,436
I remember my childhood
very, very distinctly,
825
00:33:00,437 --> 00:33:02,479
as if it was like
a Super 8 movie
826
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,732
that gets played back
in my own head.
827
00:33:04,733 --> 00:33:06,734
[file reel whirring]
828
00:33:06,735 --> 00:33:09,570
[solemn music]
829
00:33:09,571 --> 00:33:16,578
♪ ♪
830
00:33:18,705 --> 00:33:22,500
BARBARA:
I was shy, introverted.
831
00:33:23,877 --> 00:33:27,421
My father said I had
an inferiority complex.
832
00:33:27,422 --> 00:33:29,715
He probably was right.
833
00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:33,260
I guess the word that comes
to my mind
834
00:33:33,261 --> 00:33:35,055
is "lonely."
835
00:33:37,098 --> 00:33:40,059
My sister was
3 1/2 years older,
836
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:42,061
but from the time
she was born,
837
00:33:42,062 --> 00:33:44,313
they knew
there was something wrong.
838
00:33:44,314 --> 00:33:47,191
♪ ♪
839
00:33:47,192 --> 00:33:49,985
Today they would talk about it
as a disability.
840
00:33:49,986 --> 00:33:52,696
And it may even be
that my sister was autistic
841
00:33:52,697 --> 00:33:54,740
and we didn't know it.
842
00:33:54,741 --> 00:33:58,202
My first memory is of our
going outside in the street
843
00:33:58,203 --> 00:34:02,748
and a bunch of little boys
chasing us and ridiculing her,
844
00:34:02,749 --> 00:34:06,126
and we ran into the house
in tears.
845
00:34:06,127 --> 00:34:10,798
Well, I loved her.
She was my sister.
846
00:34:10,799 --> 00:34:12,716
But I hated her.
847
00:34:12,717 --> 00:34:19,640
♪ ♪
848
00:34:19,641 --> 00:34:24,019
My mother was never enraptured
by show business.
849
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:26,230
The glamour of it
frightened her.
850
00:34:26,231 --> 00:34:28,232
She was a very lonely woman.
851
00:34:28,233 --> 00:34:30,568
I don't know that
she loved my father.
852
00:34:31,987 --> 00:34:35,823
My mother had no means
of having a livelihood.
853
00:34:35,824 --> 00:34:38,409
And my nightmare
was that my father
854
00:34:38,410 --> 00:34:40,369
was going to lose it all.
855
00:34:40,370 --> 00:34:43,163
He was a gambler by nature.
856
00:34:43,164 --> 00:34:44,915
He gambled on cards,
857
00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:47,543
and eventually he gambled
on the Latin Quarter.
858
00:34:47,544 --> 00:34:50,963
And after years of success,
he had nothing.
859
00:34:50,964 --> 00:34:52,131
Nothing.
860
00:34:52,132 --> 00:34:54,300
- The lights on Broadway
are no longer
861
00:34:54,301 --> 00:34:56,343
the shining gay Broadway.
862
00:34:56,344 --> 00:34:58,679
BARBARA: And my father
was in great despair,
863
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,556
and he attempted suicide
864
00:35:00,557 --> 00:35:03,642
from an overdose
of sleeping pills.
865
00:35:03,643 --> 00:35:05,978
I was in my 20s,
866
00:35:05,979 --> 00:35:09,189
and I had to support
my whole family.
867
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:11,025
I had to work
868
00:35:11,026 --> 00:35:13,611
at a time when many women
of my generation
869
00:35:13,612 --> 00:35:15,030
were not working.
870
00:35:16,698 --> 00:35:19,617
CONNIE: Barbara was
the breadwinner in her family,
871
00:35:19,618 --> 00:35:23,370
because her father's
nightclubs had tanked.
872
00:35:23,371 --> 00:35:25,623
I supported my parents, too,
873
00:35:25,624 --> 00:35:30,169
and I think that caused us,
both of us,
874
00:35:30,170 --> 00:35:35,090
to feel as if we had
to have our jobs.
875
00:35:35,091 --> 00:35:39,261
So both Barbara and I took on
the role of a guy.
876
00:35:39,262 --> 00:35:41,889
We became men.
877
00:35:41,890 --> 00:35:43,807
- Can you hear
His Majesty well?
878
00:35:43,808 --> 00:35:45,184
Is his microphone too low?
879
00:35:45,185 --> 00:35:47,478
CONNIE: And we had
the responsibilities of men,
880
00:35:47,479 --> 00:35:51,065
and we conducted
our careers like men.
881
00:35:51,066 --> 00:35:52,858
- In a man's life, women count
882
00:35:52,859 --> 00:35:54,860
only if they are beautiful,
graceful,
883
00:35:54,861 --> 00:35:56,653
and know how to stay feminine.
884
00:35:56,654 --> 00:35:59,823
You may be equal in the eyes
of the law but not in ability.
885
00:35:59,824 --> 00:36:02,409
You have never produced
a Michelangelo or a Bach
886
00:36:02,410 --> 00:36:04,453
or even a great cook.
887
00:36:04,454 --> 00:36:07,581
Oh, Your Majesty,
you said all these things.
888
00:36:07,582 --> 00:36:10,834
So you don't feel that women
are, in that sense, equal,
889
00:36:10,835 --> 00:36:12,586
that they have the same
intelligence or ability?
890
00:36:12,587 --> 00:36:13,712
- Not so far.
891
00:36:13,713 --> 00:36:15,422
Maybe you will become
in the future.
892
00:36:15,423 --> 00:36:17,716
You can always have
some exceptions.
893
00:36:17,717 --> 00:36:19,635
- Here and there.
SHAH: Yes.
894
00:36:19,636 --> 00:36:24,431
But on the average, when have
you produced a top scientist?
895
00:36:24,432 --> 00:36:26,392
- Madame Curie.
896
00:36:26,393 --> 00:36:28,018
SHAH:
That's one.
897
00:36:28,019 --> 00:36:30,896
PERSON: You've been successful
in getting a great many people
898
00:36:30,897 --> 00:36:32,898
to come on your shows.
899
00:36:32,899 --> 00:36:34,691
What makes them decide,
900
00:36:34,692 --> 00:36:36,693
I'm going to go
on Barbara Walters' program,
901
00:36:36,694 --> 00:36:38,904
and I'm not going to go on
anybody else's?
902
00:36:38,905 --> 00:36:40,948
- Well, first of all,
I had heard sometimes,
903
00:36:40,949 --> 00:36:42,574
oh, she gets
this or that interview
904
00:36:42,575 --> 00:36:43,826
because of her contacts.
905
00:36:43,827 --> 00:36:45,828
I wasn't born with contacts.
PERSON: Mm-hmm.
906
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:48,372
BARBARA: I would pick up
the phone myself.
907
00:36:48,373 --> 00:36:51,250
I would write letters.
I would call.
908
00:36:51,251 --> 00:36:52,668
I would...
909
00:36:52,669 --> 00:36:54,878
I didn't just nag.
I nudged.
910
00:36:54,879 --> 00:36:59,007
VICTOR: Barbara's strategy
was to prepare the whole world
911
00:36:59,008 --> 00:37:00,342
to be interviewed by her
912
00:37:00,343 --> 00:37:02,886
in terms
of her social connections.
913
00:37:02,887 --> 00:37:06,473
She had a Rolodex--
millions of names.
914
00:37:06,474 --> 00:37:09,184
She nurtured
those relationships.
915
00:37:09,185 --> 00:37:12,020
DAVID: Hollywood, senators,
statesmen, dictators--
916
00:37:12,021 --> 00:37:13,731
they came to her
917
00:37:13,732 --> 00:37:16,775
because she got
people's attention
918
00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:19,528
in ways that the Cronkites
of the world would not.
919
00:37:19,529 --> 00:37:21,947
MARTIN: Barbara had
wide-ranging acquaintances
920
00:37:21,948 --> 00:37:23,323
and friendships.
921
00:37:23,324 --> 00:37:25,909
That was part of her process.
922
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:27,745
You know, I think Barbara
would be friends
923
00:37:27,746 --> 00:37:29,538
with the devil
if we'd get the interview.
924
00:37:29,539 --> 00:37:31,081
- His agent said to us,
"He won't do it."
925
00:37:31,082 --> 00:37:32,166
I said, "Ask him."
926
00:37:32,167 --> 00:37:33,459
He said, "I tell you,
he won't do it."
927
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:34,793
I said, "Ask him."
928
00:37:34,794 --> 00:37:36,670
VICTOR: Often, I would
hear her on the phone
929
00:37:36,671 --> 00:37:38,464
with various celebrities,
agents.
930
00:37:38,465 --> 00:37:40,132
She worked it.
931
00:37:40,133 --> 00:37:41,884
- Then I have my tricks,
and so that--
932
00:37:41,885 --> 00:37:43,969
DAVID LETTERMAN: What would--
[laughter]
933
00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:45,763
This is what we need
to know, Barbara.
934
00:37:45,764 --> 00:37:47,639
What...
935
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,725
VICTOR:
And she always said,
936
00:37:49,726 --> 00:37:51,518
no one prepares
as much as she does.
937
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:54,813
No one worries about the work
as much as she does.
938
00:37:54,814 --> 00:37:57,733
- Now, where were your cards?
- My cards were down here.
939
00:37:57,734 --> 00:37:59,902
VICTOR: When she prepared
for an interview,
940
00:37:59,903 --> 00:38:01,487
the whole world stopped
941
00:38:01,488 --> 00:38:03,363
when you were
in this session with her.
942
00:38:03,364 --> 00:38:04,531
Nothing could interrupt.
943
00:38:04,532 --> 00:38:06,658
- What did I do with my pen?
Oh, damn it.
944
00:38:06,659 --> 00:38:08,118
You got that?
Okay.
945
00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:09,703
VICTOR: And she went
through hundreds of questions,
946
00:38:09,704 --> 00:38:13,207
and then she, in a moment,
said, "That's enough.
947
00:38:13,208 --> 00:38:14,208
We're ready."
948
00:38:14,209 --> 00:38:16,376
- This is 20/20.
949
00:38:16,377 --> 00:38:19,296
[grand music]
950
00:38:19,297 --> 00:38:20,964
VICTOR:
ABC launched 20/20
951
00:38:20,965 --> 00:38:23,759
and suggested that Barbara
bring her big interviews.
952
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,345
That was really
the best place for her,
953
00:38:26,346 --> 00:38:28,430
because it combined news
954
00:38:28,431 --> 00:38:30,599
and pop culture
and entertainment.
955
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,893
ANNOUNCER:
Tonight on 20/20,
956
00:38:32,894 --> 00:38:35,312
a Barbara Walters exclusive.
957
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:37,147
- Why did you kill
John Lennon?
958
00:38:37,148 --> 00:38:40,734
CONNIE: She got all of these
incredible exclusives...
959
00:38:40,735 --> 00:38:42,402
BARBARA:
You felt sometimes the need
960
00:38:42,403 --> 00:38:44,947
to justify your own existence.
961
00:38:44,948 --> 00:38:49,201
- Ranging from world leaders
to movie stars
962
00:38:49,202 --> 00:38:51,036
to a person in the news.
963
00:38:51,037 --> 00:38:52,287
BARBARA: What do you say
to people who say,
964
00:38:52,288 --> 00:38:54,915
Dr. Kevorkian,
you are playing God?
965
00:38:54,916 --> 00:38:59,002
- A doctor always plays God,
even when he gives you a pill.
966
00:38:59,003 --> 00:39:01,547
VICTOR: The ratings were
very big with 20/20
967
00:39:01,548 --> 00:39:03,549
because it was the only show
like that.
968
00:39:03,550 --> 00:39:06,426
It was really competing
with all the big dramas.
969
00:39:06,427 --> 00:39:07,803
On any given night,
970
00:39:07,804 --> 00:39:10,389
10 million,
12 million people would watch.
971
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:12,266
CYNTHIA: She knew
she was in a business.
972
00:39:12,267 --> 00:39:14,935
She wanted to know,
as soon as they came out,
973
00:39:14,936 --> 00:39:17,312
what the ratings were,
how many people had watched,
974
00:39:17,313 --> 00:39:22,067
because she knew that
that kept her at the top.
975
00:39:22,068 --> 00:39:24,653
BARBARA: This adorable baby
is two years old.
976
00:39:24,654 --> 00:39:26,321
He has AIDS.
977
00:39:26,322 --> 00:39:28,073
So great is the fear these days
978
00:39:28,074 --> 00:39:30,659
that many people
will be concerned
979
00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:33,662
that I am even holding
this baby.
980
00:39:33,663 --> 00:39:36,081
CYNTHIA:
She tackled some tough issues
981
00:39:36,082 --> 00:39:39,293
in a way that the public
never thought about before.
982
00:39:39,294 --> 00:39:41,004
- Does he hit you?
983
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:44,923
- He shakes.
He pushes.
984
00:39:44,924 --> 00:39:46,842
He, um...
985
00:39:46,843 --> 00:39:48,218
he swings.
986
00:39:48,219 --> 00:39:50,429
REPORTER: Heavyweight champion
Mike Tyson
987
00:39:50,430 --> 00:39:52,848
reportedly threw chairs
through the windows
988
00:39:52,849 --> 00:39:55,058
of his $4.5 million mansion.
989
00:39:55,059 --> 00:39:57,644
Apparently, it was
this nationwide interview
990
00:39:57,645 --> 00:40:01,231
with Tyson and his wife that
triggered the champ's anger.
991
00:40:01,232 --> 00:40:04,401
- You're sitting here
and listening to this.
992
00:40:04,402 --> 00:40:07,487
How do you feel?
What do you have to say?
993
00:40:07,488 --> 00:40:10,490
- This is a situation in which
I'm dealing with my illness.
994
00:40:10,491 --> 00:40:13,660
And, like, basically,
like I said, this is my wife,
995
00:40:13,661 --> 00:40:16,038
and we're dealing with it.
996
00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:17,331
- I think many people went
997
00:40:17,332 --> 00:40:19,791
into every Barbara Walters
interview saying,
998
00:40:19,792 --> 00:40:21,460
I'm not going to cry,
I'm not going to cry,
999
00:40:21,461 --> 00:40:23,587
I'm not going to cry,
and then, bam,
1000
00:40:23,588 --> 00:40:25,672
you end up doing the thing
1001
00:40:25,673 --> 00:40:28,133
that you thought
you most didn't want to do.
1002
00:40:28,134 --> 00:40:30,470
- Why the tears now, Oprah?
OPRAH: Well...
1003
00:40:33,514 --> 00:40:36,683
She had an intention and...
1004
00:40:36,684 --> 00:40:38,769
a reason for the interview.
1005
00:40:38,770 --> 00:40:42,356
She was looking to find
a vulnerability
1006
00:40:42,357 --> 00:40:44,650
that you had not offered
to the rest of the world.
1007
00:40:44,651 --> 00:40:46,109
At the time you're being
sexually abused, you don't know
1008
00:40:46,110 --> 00:40:47,527
that's what's happening.
- That's what I was gonna say.
1009
00:40:47,528 --> 00:40:49,071
I mean when you're a kid--
- Oh, you don't say,
1010
00:40:49,072 --> 00:40:50,280
"I'm sexually abused."
1011
00:40:50,281 --> 00:40:51,782
This is just something
that's happening.
1012
00:40:51,783 --> 00:40:55,327
That was the first time
that I spoke openly
1013
00:40:55,328 --> 00:40:57,663
about being sexually abused.
1014
00:40:57,664 --> 00:41:00,374
This was 1988
when that interview was done.
1015
00:41:00,375 --> 00:41:03,001
Nobody was talking about abuse.
1016
00:41:03,002 --> 00:41:04,586
I was prepared.
1017
00:41:04,587 --> 00:41:07,798
I wasn't prepared to go
into the ugly cry,
1018
00:41:07,799 --> 00:41:10,926
but I knew that if anybody
was going to have the nerve
1019
00:41:10,927 --> 00:41:13,053
to go there, it was going
to be Barbara Walters.
1020
00:41:13,054 --> 00:41:14,346
- You were not raped,
were you?
1021
00:41:14,347 --> 00:41:15,764
- Mm-hmm, I was.
- You were actually raped.
1022
00:41:15,765 --> 00:41:17,057
- I was raped.
- Did you know?
1023
00:41:17,058 --> 00:41:18,141
- No, I had no idea.
1024
00:41:18,142 --> 00:41:19,226
- What did you think
was happening?
1025
00:41:19,227 --> 00:41:20,352
- I'll tell you.
1026
00:41:20,353 --> 00:41:23,313
I remember being
at a relative's house,
1027
00:41:23,314 --> 00:41:26,775
and I'd been left with...
1028
00:41:26,776 --> 00:41:29,861
a 19-year-old cousin.
1029
00:41:29,862 --> 00:41:31,531
And...
1030
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:35,659
He raped me.
1031
00:41:35,660 --> 00:41:38,203
He told me that if I ever told,
1032
00:41:38,204 --> 00:41:42,332
we would both get in trouble,
so I never did.
1033
00:41:42,333 --> 00:41:44,209
- You make me want to cry.
- Yeah.
1034
00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:47,629
For me, it was the...
1035
00:41:47,630 --> 00:41:49,965
cracking the shell...
1036
00:41:49,966 --> 00:41:52,134
of sexual abuse
1037
00:41:52,135 --> 00:41:56,179
and feeling comfortable enough
with her
1038
00:41:56,180 --> 00:41:59,558
to share that story
on national television
1039
00:41:59,559 --> 00:42:03,019
with, at the time,
20 million people.
1040
00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:05,689
It made it easier to talk
about it on my own show
1041
00:42:05,690 --> 00:42:08,150
after sharing that
with Barbara Walters.
1042
00:42:08,151 --> 00:42:10,027
- Thank you, my dear.
- Thank you.
1043
00:42:10,028 --> 00:42:11,403
MARTIN:
Barbara felt that people
1044
00:42:11,404 --> 00:42:12,696
looked down on her a bit
1045
00:42:12,697 --> 00:42:14,740
because she dealt
with celebrities.
1046
00:42:14,741 --> 00:42:16,616
Well, those
celebrity interviews
1047
00:42:16,617 --> 00:42:20,162
brought in terrific ratings
and a lot of money for ABC.
1048
00:42:20,163 --> 00:42:24,833
- But it really made
a lot of more, let's say,
1049
00:42:24,834 --> 00:42:26,710
big-J journalists angry.
1050
00:42:26,711 --> 00:42:28,211
- And she never believed
1051
00:42:28,212 --> 00:42:33,216
that she was accepted
in this "fraternity,"
1052
00:42:33,217 --> 00:42:34,926
as a "journalist."
1053
00:42:34,927 --> 00:42:37,721
- We're going to delete Shell
from the second segment.
1054
00:42:37,722 --> 00:42:39,055
We'll talk you through this.
1055
00:42:39,056 --> 00:42:41,516
VICTOR: There were
the anchors, male anchors.
1056
00:42:41,517 --> 00:42:43,310
Peter Jennings was
the lead anchor
1057
00:42:43,311 --> 00:42:45,187
for the evening news
for many of those years.
1058
00:42:45,188 --> 00:42:46,313
- Good evening.
1059
00:42:46,314 --> 00:42:47,856
It was 5:42 in the morning
outside...
1060
00:42:47,857 --> 00:42:49,816
BARBARA: Peter Jennings
always put me down.
1061
00:42:49,817 --> 00:42:52,652
I had a very difficult time
working with Peter...
1062
00:42:52,653 --> 00:42:54,654
very difficult.
1063
00:42:54,655 --> 00:42:56,656
I don't think that's why
he left, but it played a part.
1064
00:42:56,657 --> 00:42:58,784
- Forgive me for interrupting.
What about his relationship--
1065
00:42:58,785 --> 00:42:59,951
BARBARA:
He would interrupt
1066
00:42:59,952 --> 00:43:01,787
without any regard
for what I said,
1067
00:43:01,788 --> 00:43:03,663
and he never took me serious.
1068
00:43:03,664 --> 00:43:05,832
Once in a while, he said to
me, "That was a good report."
1069
00:43:05,833 --> 00:43:07,459
Like, oh, what a surprise.
1070
00:43:07,460 --> 00:43:09,377
I was used to working
with bullies.
1071
00:43:09,378 --> 00:43:11,129
When I stop to think of it
as we talk,
1072
00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:12,964
he was the third bully
that I've worked with--
1073
00:43:12,965 --> 00:43:15,634
Frank McGee, Harry Reasoner,
Peter Jennings.
1074
00:43:15,635 --> 00:43:19,429
It's the way
it was thought of then.
1075
00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:22,057
The so-called "hard news"...
1076
00:43:22,058 --> 00:43:23,850
a woman couldn't do it.
1077
00:43:23,851 --> 00:43:27,437
The audience wouldn't
accept her voice.
1078
00:43:27,438 --> 00:43:30,148
She couldn't ask
the tough questions.
1079
00:43:30,149 --> 00:43:34,111
She couldn't go
into the war zones.
1080
00:43:34,112 --> 00:43:35,654
REPORTER:
Muammar Gaddafi is
1081
00:43:35,655 --> 00:43:38,240
one of the most frightening
names in the world today--
1082
00:43:38,241 --> 00:43:40,742
the mysterious
strongman of Libya.
1083
00:43:40,743 --> 00:43:42,702
BARBARA:
He's accused of complicity
1084
00:43:42,703 --> 00:43:44,329
in terrorist attacks,
1085
00:43:44,330 --> 00:43:48,166
including this bombing of
a Berlin discotheque in 1986.
1086
00:43:48,167 --> 00:43:51,002
An American serviceman
was killed.
1087
00:43:51,003 --> 00:43:52,295
In retaliation,
1088
00:43:52,296 --> 00:43:55,257
President Reagan ordered
Libya bombed.
1089
00:43:55,258 --> 00:43:57,509
Gaddafi's own home was
severely damaged.
1090
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:59,678
PERSON:
Okay.
1091
00:43:59,679 --> 00:44:00,887
BARBARA:
Here I come.
1092
00:44:00,888 --> 00:44:02,514
PERSON: Straight through
to the corner room
1093
00:44:02,515 --> 00:44:03,682
on your left, Barbara.
1094
00:44:03,683 --> 00:44:05,100
Stand there, look around,
walk out.
1095
00:44:05,101 --> 00:44:07,853
DAVID: She was walking
with some trepidation
1096
00:44:07,854 --> 00:44:10,355
through the ruins
of his headquarters
1097
00:44:10,356 --> 00:44:13,608
in a Chanel suit
that was Barbie pink.
1098
00:44:13,609 --> 00:44:15,402
I thought
she was embarrassing herself--
1099
00:44:15,403 --> 00:44:17,946
too New York,
too hot for the desert.
1100
00:44:17,947 --> 00:44:19,364
Like, what are you doing?
1101
00:44:19,365 --> 00:44:20,949
- Here we go.
1102
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:23,577
DAVID:
And then the producer said,
1103
00:44:23,578 --> 00:44:26,163
no, she knows
exactly what she's doing.
1104
00:44:26,164 --> 00:44:28,415
BARBARA: General Gaddafi,
I'm happy to meet you.
1105
00:44:28,416 --> 00:44:30,250
DAVID:
That was her battle armor.
1106
00:44:30,251 --> 00:44:32,127
That was saying,
"I'm sophisticated,
1107
00:44:32,128 --> 00:44:33,628
"I'm culturally important,
1108
00:44:33,629 --> 00:44:35,422
"and when the cameras go on,
1109
00:44:35,423 --> 00:44:38,008
I'm in charge in this tent,
not you."
1110
00:44:38,009 --> 00:44:39,509
- You let me know
when you are ready, Martin.
1111
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:42,304
I am ready.
Roll tape. Let's do speed.
1112
00:44:42,305 --> 00:44:47,225
So I will ask questions--
political and about your life.
1113
00:44:47,226 --> 00:44:49,519
VICTOR:
She was proving
1114
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,606
that she should be respected
1115
00:44:52,607 --> 00:44:54,357
like one of the guys,
1116
00:44:54,358 --> 00:44:58,528
and I think that turned her
into a real fierce warrior.
1117
00:44:58,529 --> 00:45:02,199
- In our country, we read
that you are unstable.
1118
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,826
We read that you are mad.
- [chuckles]
1119
00:45:04,827 --> 00:45:07,663
BARBARA: You know that those
things have been printed.
1120
00:45:08,789 --> 00:45:10,332
What do you say to that?
1121
00:45:10,333 --> 00:45:11,791
MARTIN:
She asked tough questions,
1122
00:45:11,792 --> 00:45:13,627
but she would be demure
about it.
1123
00:45:13,628 --> 00:45:15,545
- I would like to be fair
with you.
1124
00:45:15,546 --> 00:45:17,672
This is a recent report
that says
1125
00:45:17,673 --> 00:45:21,426
that you are using surrogates
to commit terrorist acts.
1126
00:45:21,427 --> 00:45:23,178
Would you like to see it?
GADDAFI: This is not true.
1127
00:45:23,179 --> 00:45:24,471
This is one of the lies.
1128
00:45:24,472 --> 00:45:26,181
- Well, we're trying
to clear up the lies.
1129
00:45:26,182 --> 00:45:28,391
MARTIN:
And she was very adept
1130
00:45:28,392 --> 00:45:31,436
at folding the personal
into the interview itself.
1131
00:45:31,437 --> 00:45:33,939
Can you tell us
about your childhood,
1132
00:45:33,940 --> 00:45:38,443
what you hoped to be
when you were a little boy?
1133
00:45:38,444 --> 00:45:40,028
- [speaking native language]
1134
00:45:40,029 --> 00:45:42,572
- It is so fascinating
that she asked
1135
00:45:42,573 --> 00:45:45,241
these incredibly powerful men
1136
00:45:45,242 --> 00:45:48,036
the simplest of questions,
1137
00:45:48,037 --> 00:45:50,872
pressing Gaddafi
about his childhood dreams.
1138
00:45:50,873 --> 00:45:52,832
You know, those are
the kinds of questions
1139
00:45:52,833 --> 00:45:55,418
that were so criticized
by male journalists--
1140
00:45:55,419 --> 00:45:57,170
ugh, frivolous.
1141
00:45:57,171 --> 00:46:00,674
I would respectfully disagree.
1142
00:46:00,675 --> 00:46:04,135
CONNIE: That's a great way
to get to an interviewee.
1143
00:46:04,136 --> 00:46:06,721
Make them human,
because they are.
1144
00:46:06,722 --> 00:46:10,433
- Can I take a picture to give
to you of the two of you?
1145
00:46:10,434 --> 00:46:11,685
Where's my camera?
1146
00:46:11,686 --> 00:46:13,436
Okay, look at me.
Right.
1147
00:46:13,437 --> 00:46:15,772
No, no, closer to your wife.
1148
00:46:15,773 --> 00:46:17,524
There we go.
Great.
1149
00:46:17,525 --> 00:46:19,859
[camera shutter clicks,
film whirs]
1150
00:46:19,860 --> 00:46:21,779
CREW MEMBER:
Stand by, please.
1151
00:46:24,073 --> 00:46:25,991
- So you think you're going
to get married again?
1152
00:46:25,992 --> 00:46:26,992
DIANA: I'd love to.
1153
00:46:26,993 --> 00:46:28,493
- Really?
DIANA: Yes.
1154
00:46:28,494 --> 00:46:30,787
I don't know where
he's at yet, but I would.
1155
00:46:30,788 --> 00:46:32,289
- What would you look for?
1156
00:46:32,290 --> 00:46:34,582
- Oh, someone that would
understand my kind of life.
1157
00:46:34,583 --> 00:46:37,502
You know, it's very difficult
for a woman in show business,
1158
00:46:37,503 --> 00:46:38,837
I think.
1159
00:46:38,838 --> 00:46:40,630
BARBARA: Is that what broke
the marriage up?
1160
00:46:40,631 --> 00:46:42,257
- Um, I think, yes.
1161
00:46:42,258 --> 00:46:44,509
- I know you don't want to talk
about guys in your life,
1162
00:46:44,510 --> 00:46:45,677
and I won't push it.
1163
00:46:45,678 --> 00:46:47,846
But you are young.
You are beautiful.
1164
00:46:47,847 --> 00:46:50,348
You are successful.
You are rich.
1165
00:46:50,349 --> 00:46:52,685
How are you going
to find anybody?
1166
00:46:53,894 --> 00:46:57,272
- Uh, anybody
like a guy to date?
1167
00:46:57,273 --> 00:46:59,107
BARBARA:
Yeah.
1168
00:46:59,108 --> 00:47:01,735
When I was in my 20s and 30s,
1169
00:47:01,736 --> 00:47:03,403
when I should
have been dating,
1170
00:47:03,404 --> 00:47:04,904
I was working day and night.
1171
00:47:04,905 --> 00:47:06,740
I didn't have
those kinds of years.
1172
00:47:06,741 --> 00:47:09,951
I didn't have those years
until I was in my 30s and 40s.
1173
00:47:09,952 --> 00:47:11,911
Mine was a very delayed...
1174
00:47:11,912 --> 00:47:14,497
[laughs]
Romantic period.
1175
00:47:14,498 --> 00:47:17,292
- Barbara had her fill...
1176
00:47:17,293 --> 00:47:19,502
[chuckling]
Of romance.
1177
00:47:19,503 --> 00:47:20,879
- [chuckles]
1178
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,714
CINDY: She thought a lot
of guys were very sexy.
1179
00:47:22,715 --> 00:47:26,051
She was interested
in the possibility...
1180
00:47:26,052 --> 00:47:27,510
- [laughs]
1181
00:47:27,511 --> 00:47:29,304
- [laughing]
Of sex.
1182
00:47:29,305 --> 00:47:32,307
She liked it.
She liked men.
1183
00:47:32,308 --> 00:47:35,518
- But are you afraid
of showing emotions?
1184
00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:37,145
CLINT:
I don't think so.
1185
00:47:37,146 --> 00:47:39,939
There's certain things
I just don't enjoy sharing
1186
00:47:39,940 --> 00:47:41,232
with everybody else.
1187
00:47:41,233 --> 00:47:42,609
What's there to know?
1188
00:47:42,610 --> 00:47:44,569
- You would drive me nuts,
and I would drive you crazy,
1189
00:47:44,570 --> 00:47:46,613
because I would be saying,
but, you know, but didn't you
1190
00:47:46,614 --> 00:47:48,531
or haven't you or have you?
1191
00:47:48,532 --> 00:47:50,533
- Well, we could try it
and see if it worked out.
1192
00:47:50,534 --> 00:47:52,577
[laughter]
1193
00:47:52,578 --> 00:47:54,371
We'll start
with this interview.
1194
00:47:54,372 --> 00:47:56,164
If this is okay,
we get somewhere,
1195
00:47:56,165 --> 00:47:57,958
maybe we'll do
another interview.
1196
00:48:00,503 --> 00:48:03,506
I think we'll stop and reload.
[laughter]
1197
00:48:05,633 --> 00:48:08,301
LORI: She was never cynical
about love,
1198
00:48:08,302 --> 00:48:11,721
and she definitely was
1199
00:48:11,722 --> 00:48:14,557
a romantic kind of person,
1200
00:48:14,558 --> 00:48:17,769
but romance just never worked
1201
00:48:17,770 --> 00:48:20,397
in her life for long.
1202
00:48:20,398 --> 00:48:22,816
CINDY: She loved being
important to a man.
1203
00:48:22,817 --> 00:48:26,820
She didn't have patience
for somebody who was stupid.
1204
00:48:26,821 --> 00:48:29,572
She didn't love you
if you were nobody either.
1205
00:48:29,573 --> 00:48:31,241
You had to be somebody.
1206
00:48:31,242 --> 00:48:34,411
PERSON:
Alan Greenspan--attraction?
1207
00:48:34,412 --> 00:48:36,413
BARBARA: Because he likes
strong women,
1208
00:48:36,414 --> 00:48:39,124
and we both love politics.
1209
00:48:39,125 --> 00:48:41,376
- What kind of man
appeals to you?
1210
00:48:41,377 --> 00:48:43,378
- What was beginning
to depress me last year is
1211
00:48:43,379 --> 00:48:45,588
that I found that I was only
getting to like dictators.
1212
00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:47,173
[laughter]
1213
00:48:47,174 --> 00:48:49,384
There is a certain charm
about a dictator.
1214
00:48:49,385 --> 00:48:51,594
I think that there are
strong women
1215
00:48:51,595 --> 00:48:54,806
who are most comfortable
with a man who is weaker.
1216
00:48:54,807 --> 00:48:56,683
I've never felt that.
1217
00:48:56,684 --> 00:48:58,601
- She was obsessed
with three things.
1218
00:48:58,602 --> 00:49:01,896
She was obsessed
with money, fame, and power.
1219
00:49:01,897 --> 00:49:03,523
And when I would have
conversations with her
1220
00:49:03,524 --> 00:49:04,607
about her father--
1221
00:49:04,608 --> 00:49:06,443
Her father was a scoundrel.
1222
00:49:06,444 --> 00:49:08,903
He was irresponsible
with money.
1223
00:49:08,904 --> 00:49:12,115
He was not
a perfect family man.
1224
00:49:12,116 --> 00:49:15,201
A "scoundrel"
is actually the right word.
1225
00:49:15,202 --> 00:49:18,455
And I think she was
both horrified by that
1226
00:49:18,456 --> 00:49:20,999
and attracted to that.
1227
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,210
One of the things I had
the most trouble dealing with
1228
00:49:24,211 --> 00:49:27,213
as her editor was her
relationship with Roy Cohn.
1229
00:49:27,214 --> 00:49:29,424
REPORTER: Roy Cohn may be
one of the most feared
1230
00:49:29,425 --> 00:49:30,758
attorneys in New York.
1231
00:49:30,759 --> 00:49:32,886
Super builder Donald Trump
has said,
1232
00:49:32,887 --> 00:49:36,347
"If you need somebody to get
vicious, hire Roy Cohn."
1233
00:49:36,348 --> 00:49:40,018
DAVID: Roy Cohn was
McCarthy's fixer.
1234
00:49:40,019 --> 00:49:44,731
He was universally disliked.
1235
00:49:44,732 --> 00:49:48,276
PETER: I said to her,
I would put Cohn in my top 10
1236
00:49:48,277 --> 00:49:51,279
of horrible people
of the 20th century.
1237
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:52,822
But she loved him.
1238
00:49:52,823 --> 00:49:54,491
CINDY:
Roy Cohn was famous,
1239
00:49:54,492 --> 00:49:57,076
so it was worthwhile
for Barbara.
1240
00:49:57,077 --> 00:50:00,788
Barbara was famous,
so it was worthwhile for Roy.
1241
00:50:00,789 --> 00:50:03,458
They were two people
who loved PR.
1242
00:50:03,459 --> 00:50:05,460
- They talked
about getting married.
1243
00:50:05,461 --> 00:50:08,421
I have no idea
how serious it was, you know.
1244
00:50:08,422 --> 00:50:13,051
I would say to her,
but, you know, he was gay.
1245
00:50:13,052 --> 00:50:15,094
- Did they really do
anything together?
1246
00:50:15,095 --> 00:50:17,264
I don't think so.
1247
00:50:18,766 --> 00:50:20,225
BARBARA:
Roy was very well known
1248
00:50:20,226 --> 00:50:21,601
and had a great deal of power.
1249
00:50:21,602 --> 00:50:23,436
He would take me
to the Stork Club,
1250
00:50:23,437 --> 00:50:25,605
to some
of the great restaurants.
1251
00:50:25,606 --> 00:50:27,315
He had fascinating friends.
1252
00:50:27,316 --> 00:50:31,027
PETER: She did not have
the strongest moral compass.
1253
00:50:31,028 --> 00:50:33,446
A lot of the relationships
she developed
1254
00:50:33,447 --> 00:50:35,114
were career moves,
1255
00:50:35,115 --> 00:50:39,160
and she was
a pretty transactional person.
1256
00:50:39,161 --> 00:50:41,454
BARBARA: When my father
lost everything,
1257
00:50:41,455 --> 00:50:45,500
he also had not paid
his taxes in New York.
1258
00:50:45,501 --> 00:50:49,295
And Roy Cohn said,
"Don't worry about it.
1259
00:50:49,296 --> 00:50:51,005
I will take care of it."
1260
00:50:51,006 --> 00:50:53,049
- What we want to do is just
chip away at them
1261
00:50:53,050 --> 00:50:54,175
little by little.
1262
00:50:54,176 --> 00:50:56,177
BARBARA:
I don't know how he did it.
1263
00:50:56,178 --> 00:50:59,305
I don't know
what judges he talked to.
1264
00:50:59,306 --> 00:51:01,182
I forgot about ethics.
1265
00:51:01,183 --> 00:51:04,018
And I have been severely
criticized by my friends,
1266
00:51:04,019 --> 00:51:08,565
and I can understand, because
Roy did some terrible things.
1267
00:51:08,566 --> 00:51:11,567
But this was my father,
1268
00:51:11,568 --> 00:51:13,778
and he saved him.
1269
00:51:13,779 --> 00:51:15,989
PETER:
She didn't see things
1270
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:18,866
in that kind of moral light.
1271
00:51:18,867 --> 00:51:21,619
That stuff was always
in the shadows.
1272
00:51:21,620 --> 00:51:25,373
She could forgive anyone
who was really good to her,
1273
00:51:25,374 --> 00:51:28,960
no matter what they did in
the other parts of their lives.
1274
00:51:28,961 --> 00:51:30,962
- The man
I was going out with--
1275
00:51:30,963 --> 00:51:32,130
is my microphone off?
1276
00:51:32,131 --> 00:51:33,715
Is the sound off?
I don't want to hear this.
1277
00:51:33,716 --> 00:51:35,174
Is the sound off?
1278
00:51:35,175 --> 00:51:36,551
The man whom I was going out
with last night
1279
00:51:36,552 --> 00:51:39,262
is quite well known
in the community.
1280
00:51:39,263 --> 00:51:40,263
And...
1281
00:51:40,264 --> 00:51:41,556
PERSON:
John Warner.
1282
00:51:41,557 --> 00:51:43,641
BARBARA: John Warner was
in and out of my life
1283
00:51:43,642 --> 00:51:46,561
since the early 1970s.
1284
00:51:46,562 --> 00:51:47,770
We went out a great deal,
1285
00:51:47,771 --> 00:51:49,272
then he married
Elizabeth Taylor.
1286
00:51:49,273 --> 00:51:50,732
CREW MEMBER:
Stand by, please.
1287
00:51:50,733 --> 00:51:52,400
BARBARA: And I did an
interview with both of them.
1288
00:51:52,401 --> 00:51:54,360
It was bizarre.
1289
00:51:54,361 --> 00:51:56,613
DAVID: Her relationship
with John Warner,
1290
00:51:56,614 --> 00:51:58,865
one of the great power brokers
of Washington--
1291
00:51:58,866 --> 00:52:01,617
did that help her land
political interviews?
1292
00:52:01,618 --> 00:52:02,952
Probably.
1293
00:52:02,953 --> 00:52:05,038
I think she cared for him
a great deal, too,
1294
00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:06,497
but it didn't hurt.
1295
00:52:06,498 --> 00:52:08,416
You can never know
1296
00:52:08,417 --> 00:52:11,169
about what's transactional
and what's not,
1297
00:52:11,170 --> 00:52:12,545
but you can wonder.
1298
00:52:12,546 --> 00:52:14,797
PERSON: Senator Ed Brooke.
BARBARA: Yeah.
1299
00:52:14,798 --> 00:52:16,382
PERSON: Massachusetts.
BARBARA: Yeah.
1300
00:52:16,383 --> 00:52:17,925
PERSON: Married.
BARBARA: Yeah.
1301
00:52:17,926 --> 00:52:19,635
PERSON: African American.
BARBARA: Yeah.
1302
00:52:19,636 --> 00:52:21,596
- I just think there should be
no ambiguity.
1303
00:52:21,597 --> 00:52:23,139
PERSON: Very distinguished.
BARBARA: Yeah.
1304
00:52:23,140 --> 00:52:24,849
Anything we left out?
1305
00:52:24,850 --> 00:52:27,602
- We all said,
"Barbara, what are you doing?
1306
00:52:27,603 --> 00:52:30,396
This is not quite right."
1307
00:52:30,397 --> 00:52:31,856
And she says, "I know,
1308
00:52:31,857 --> 00:52:34,109
but he's so exciting,
and he's so great."
1309
00:52:38,238 --> 00:52:39,739
- Much easier.
1310
00:52:39,740 --> 00:52:41,449
- I don't think you could see
it from where you're sitting--
1311
00:52:41,450 --> 00:52:43,534
It was a very different time.
1312
00:52:43,535 --> 00:52:46,454
Had this become public,
it would have been something
1313
00:52:46,455 --> 00:52:50,124
that a lot of people
would not have understood.
1314
00:52:50,125 --> 00:52:51,834
It had to be kept secret.
1315
00:52:51,835 --> 00:52:53,419
Silent? Okay.
1316
00:52:53,420 --> 00:52:55,963
That's very hard for me.
1317
00:52:55,964 --> 00:52:57,590
He had a bad marriage.
1318
00:52:57,591 --> 00:53:00,426
But I felt that when
it began to become public,
1319
00:53:00,427 --> 00:53:02,679
it hurt his chances
for re-election.
1320
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:04,972
And he was
a very good senator.
1321
00:53:04,973 --> 00:53:06,433
Okay?
1322
00:53:09,770 --> 00:53:12,480
You said, "I know that this
marriage will always last.
1323
00:53:12,481 --> 00:53:14,649
This man gives me
everything I need."
1324
00:53:14,650 --> 00:53:16,275
How do you know?
1325
00:53:16,276 --> 00:53:19,112
- Well, I need freedom.
The man gives me freedom.
1326
00:53:19,113 --> 00:53:20,780
- So why get married?
1327
00:53:20,781 --> 00:53:22,281
DOLLY:
Well, why not?
1328
00:53:22,282 --> 00:53:25,284
BARBARA: I was single
more than I was married--
1329
00:53:25,285 --> 00:53:27,328
0 for 3.
1330
00:53:27,329 --> 00:53:30,123
I think I always felt trapped.
1331
00:53:30,124 --> 00:53:33,042
I didn't have a very good
example of marriage
1332
00:53:33,043 --> 00:53:35,086
from my mother and father.
1333
00:53:35,087 --> 00:53:37,880
And as soon as I got in it,
1334
00:53:37,881 --> 00:53:40,425
I wanted to get out of it.
1335
00:53:40,426 --> 00:53:42,468
PERSON: You are married?
BARBARA: I am.
1336
00:53:42,469 --> 00:53:43,886
PERSON:
Your husband, Merv Adelson,
1337
00:53:43,887 --> 00:53:45,680
is one of the true powers
of television
1338
00:53:45,681 --> 00:53:47,765
and the whole
show-business industry.
1339
00:53:47,766 --> 00:53:49,225
You're in New York.
He's here.
1340
00:53:49,226 --> 00:53:52,311
- But he comes there a lot.
PERSON: But here's a scenario.
1341
00:53:52,312 --> 00:53:54,147
- And I come here a little.
- Oh.
1342
00:53:54,148 --> 00:53:56,607
- Well, it's the price you pay
to be with Barbara, but...
1343
00:53:56,608 --> 00:53:59,610
- [laughs]
- He's not feeling well.
1344
00:53:59,611 --> 00:54:01,654
His spirits are down.
1345
00:54:01,655 --> 00:54:03,156
You're in New York.
1346
00:54:03,157 --> 00:54:05,450
You got three hot interviews
you're doing for 20/20.
1347
00:54:05,451 --> 00:54:07,285
You have to be
on Good Morning America.
1348
00:54:07,286 --> 00:54:09,287
The president of some country
that's suddenly in the news
1349
00:54:09,288 --> 00:54:10,747
will talk only to you.
1350
00:54:10,748 --> 00:54:12,373
You got to get on a plane
and go over there,
1351
00:54:12,374 --> 00:54:13,666
and he's here,
and he's saying,
1352
00:54:13,667 --> 00:54:15,501
"Honey, I don't feel
real good."
1353
00:54:15,502 --> 00:54:17,086
What happens to you then?
1354
00:54:17,087 --> 00:54:19,047
BARBARA:
I feel as guilty as can be.
1355
00:54:20,591 --> 00:54:23,926
- With Merv, I mean,
she was living in two places
1356
00:54:23,927 --> 00:54:25,303
LA and New York.
1357
00:54:25,304 --> 00:54:28,139
And the work always took over.
1358
00:54:28,140 --> 00:54:31,142
And if it didn't fulfill her
completely,
1359
00:54:31,143 --> 00:54:32,936
it wasn't worth her time.
1360
00:54:37,357 --> 00:54:40,943
- One, two, three, four.
One, two, three, four.
1361
00:54:40,944 --> 00:54:43,571
Okay?
- Speeding, and any time.
1362
00:54:43,572 --> 00:54:46,073
BARBARA: I talk to you
as a working mother
1363
00:54:46,074 --> 00:54:48,993
who was away a lot,
as you were, I guess.
1364
00:54:48,994 --> 00:54:51,370
- Yes.
- Do you feel guilty?
1365
00:54:51,371 --> 00:54:53,247
- Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
1366
00:54:53,248 --> 00:54:55,208
You know, this was
my lifelong dream.
1367
00:54:55,209 --> 00:54:56,959
I wanted to be in movies
1368
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,170
and do the things
that I've gotten to do.
1369
00:54:59,171 --> 00:55:01,839
A lot of people
paid the price for it,
1370
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,967
but nobody more than my kid.
1371
00:55:04,968 --> 00:55:06,344
When they're looking around,
1372
00:55:06,345 --> 00:55:08,304
waiting for you to show up
on their birthday
1373
00:55:08,305 --> 00:55:10,181
and you don't come
and you said you would--
1374
00:55:10,182 --> 00:55:11,974
you promised, you swore...
- Yeah.
1375
00:55:11,975 --> 00:55:13,935
[soft music]
1376
00:55:13,936 --> 00:55:16,020
I didn't realize
how tough it was
1377
00:55:16,021 --> 00:55:19,565
because she had a mother
who was a celebrity.
1378
00:55:19,566 --> 00:55:22,360
We struggled through schools.
1379
00:55:22,361 --> 00:55:24,820
And then, finally,
at one point,
1380
00:55:24,821 --> 00:55:27,615
when she was 16, I guess,
1381
00:55:27,616 --> 00:55:29,034
she ran away.
1382
00:55:31,245 --> 00:55:33,622
And, finally,
when I found out...
1383
00:55:35,832 --> 00:55:38,376
Where she was...
1384
00:55:38,377 --> 00:55:40,586
I had someone pick her up...
1385
00:55:40,587 --> 00:55:43,381
and take her
to an emotional-growth school,
1386
00:55:43,382 --> 00:55:44,799
which is what it was called.
1387
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,009
She was there for three years.
1388
00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:50,012
OPRAH: She had a charged,
complex relationship
1389
00:55:50,013 --> 00:55:51,430
with her daughter.
1390
00:55:51,431 --> 00:55:53,891
And, you know, I can see why.
1391
00:55:53,892 --> 00:55:58,896
It's one of the reasons
why I never had children.
1392
00:55:58,897 --> 00:56:01,274
I remember her telling me once
that there's nothing
1393
00:56:01,275 --> 00:56:03,985
more fulfilling
than having children,
1394
00:56:03,986 --> 00:56:06,070
and you should really think
about it.
1395
00:56:06,071 --> 00:56:09,323
And I was like, okay,
but I'm looking at you,
1396
00:56:09,324 --> 00:56:11,784
so, no.
1397
00:56:11,785 --> 00:56:15,329
CYNTHIA: It's important to say
Jackie had a father,
1398
00:56:15,330 --> 00:56:18,457
and Jackie had a governess.
1399
00:56:18,458 --> 00:56:22,211
So it wasn't that Jackie was
left alone in a playpen.
1400
00:56:22,212 --> 00:56:24,630
Barbara articulated many times
1401
00:56:24,631 --> 00:56:27,049
that she had made mistakes
as a mother,
1402
00:56:27,050 --> 00:56:31,470
that she had made choices
for herself, for her work.
1403
00:56:31,471 --> 00:56:33,639
PERSON: She'd been running
across the country,
1404
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:37,059
hitchhiking with guys
you didn't know.
1405
00:56:37,060 --> 00:56:38,436
Drugs?
1406
00:56:38,437 --> 00:56:41,105
- Almost any pill
she could swallow.
1407
00:56:41,106 --> 00:56:43,899
Not cocaine and not heroin.
1408
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:46,027
Thank heaven.
1409
00:56:46,028 --> 00:56:47,695
LORI:
It was a different time.
1410
00:56:47,696 --> 00:56:49,572
People wouldn't understand
if you said,
1411
00:56:49,573 --> 00:56:52,325
something was going on with
my child, I can't be there.
1412
00:56:52,326 --> 00:56:55,119
And Barbara needed to do
what she needed to do
1413
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,496
to become Barbara Walters.
1414
00:56:57,497 --> 00:56:59,957
OPRAH: You are a pioneer
in your field,
1415
00:56:59,958 --> 00:57:03,294
and you are trying
to break the mold
1416
00:57:03,295 --> 00:57:07,006
for yourself and for women
who are going to follow you.
1417
00:57:07,007 --> 00:57:10,760
Then something's going
to have to give for that.
1418
00:57:10,761 --> 00:57:14,305
And that is why
I did not have children.
1419
00:57:14,306 --> 00:57:17,016
I knew
I could not do both well.
1420
00:57:17,017 --> 00:57:20,227
Both are sacrifices--
sacrifice to do the work,
1421
00:57:20,228 --> 00:57:22,521
and there's also a sacrifice
to be the mother
1422
00:57:22,522 --> 00:57:25,191
and to say, no,
let somebody else have that.
1423
00:57:25,192 --> 00:57:29,153
And at no time have I ever
heard a story, read a story--
1424
00:57:29,154 --> 00:57:30,988
and based on what I know
of Barbara Walters,
1425
00:57:30,989 --> 00:57:33,949
at no time has
Barbara Walters ever said,
1426
00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:36,952
"No, let someone else
take that story."
1427
00:57:36,953 --> 00:57:38,704
[chuckles]
No.
1428
00:57:38,705 --> 00:57:40,373
- Are you
a competitive person?
1429
00:57:40,374 --> 00:57:42,124
- Yes, I think so.
- Is it important to you
1430
00:57:42,125 --> 00:57:44,335
to be, say, number one
in what you do?
1431
00:57:44,336 --> 00:57:46,504
- If somebody gets
the interview before me
1432
00:57:46,505 --> 00:57:48,422
and I didn't try,
I'll be mad at myself.
1433
00:57:48,423 --> 00:57:49,924
I'll think, why didn't I?
1434
00:57:49,925 --> 00:57:52,635
Why didn't I make
that one more phone call?
1435
00:57:52,636 --> 00:57:55,346
ANNOUNCER:
From ABC News in New York,
1436
00:57:55,347 --> 00:57:57,723
this is Primetime.
1437
00:57:57,724 --> 00:57:59,141
- Well, good evening,
1438
00:57:59,142 --> 00:58:01,268
and welcome
to the first Primetime Live
1439
00:58:01,269 --> 00:58:03,562
REPORTER: Diane Sawyer is
now leaving 60 Minutes
1440
00:58:03,563 --> 00:58:05,189
and the CBS network
1441
00:58:05,190 --> 00:58:07,566
for a new deal with ABC
that will team her
1442
00:58:07,567 --> 00:58:09,860
with Sam Donaldson
in prime time.
1443
00:58:09,861 --> 00:58:11,987
VICTOR: Barbara did not know
why Diane was hired
1444
00:58:11,988 --> 00:58:16,200
to start a new news magazine
within our home of ABC
1445
00:58:16,201 --> 00:58:18,035
to compete with 20/20.
1446
00:58:18,036 --> 00:58:19,995
There was a lot of talk
about that being
1447
00:58:19,996 --> 00:58:23,749
a different 20/20,
a better 20/20,
1448
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:26,711
a more live 20/20,
more energetic 20/20.
1449
00:58:26,712 --> 00:58:29,046
Barbara was unhappy.
1450
00:58:29,047 --> 00:58:32,383
MARTIN: Barbara saw herself as
someone who had helped Roone
1451
00:58:32,384 --> 00:58:34,802
elevate ABC News to a pinnacle.
1452
00:58:34,803 --> 00:58:37,596
And that had her
feeling betrayed
1453
00:58:37,597 --> 00:58:40,057
by the Diane arrival.
1454
00:58:40,058 --> 00:58:43,227
KATIE: In the '90s, news
magazines were all the rage.
1455
00:58:43,228 --> 00:58:46,856
They were popping up
like crazy.
1456
00:58:46,857 --> 00:58:49,859
- Move out of my way!
Excuse me!
1457
00:58:49,860 --> 00:58:51,485
[upbeat music]
1458
00:58:51,486 --> 00:58:52,862
- Did you do it?
1459
00:58:52,863 --> 00:58:57,450
KATIE: And big interviews
were pursued ruthlessly.
1460
00:58:57,451 --> 00:58:59,827
PERSON:
You guys, will you go away?
1461
00:58:59,828 --> 00:59:01,370
KATIE:
Lorena Bobbitt...
1462
00:59:01,371 --> 00:59:02,747
REPORTER: She cut off
her husband's penis
1463
00:59:02,748 --> 00:59:03,956
with a kitchen knife.
1464
00:59:03,957 --> 00:59:05,332
KATIE:
Tonya Harding...
1465
00:59:05,333 --> 00:59:08,002
- I would like to begin
by saying how sorry I am
1466
00:59:08,003 --> 00:59:09,920
about what happened
to Nancy Kerrigan.
1467
00:59:09,921 --> 00:59:12,715
KATIE: There were all these
big, sensational stories.
1468
00:59:12,716 --> 00:59:14,425
JUROR: We, the jury,
find the defendant,
1469
00:59:14,426 --> 00:59:17,845
Orenthal James Simpson, not
guilty of the crime of murder.
1470
00:59:17,846 --> 00:59:19,138
REPORTER:
Two brothers accused of
1471
00:59:19,139 --> 00:59:20,806
gunning down their parents...
1472
00:59:20,807 --> 00:59:25,478
- That was the period where
TV put news into prime time--
1473
00:59:25,479 --> 00:59:30,065
tabloid stories that dealt
with emotion, controversy.
1474
00:59:30,066 --> 00:59:31,776
REPORTER:
New details are emerging
1475
00:59:31,777 --> 00:59:34,361
about the police investigation
of pop star Michael Jackson.
1476
00:59:34,362 --> 00:59:35,654
- Her name is Heidi Fleiss,
1477
00:59:35,655 --> 00:59:37,823
and she is accused
of being the madam
1478
00:59:37,824 --> 00:59:39,867
of a high-priced
call-girl ring.
1479
00:59:39,868 --> 00:59:42,995
- I never, ever abused
my daughter.
1480
00:59:42,996 --> 00:59:44,497
KATIE:
It was a way
1481
00:59:44,498 --> 00:59:46,957
to get a lot of attention
for a network.
1482
00:59:46,958 --> 00:59:50,461
And attention led to ratings,
ratings led to dollars,
1483
00:59:50,462 --> 00:59:53,297
and dollars led
to happy executives.
1484
00:59:53,298 --> 00:59:54,715
Diane Sawyer...
1485
00:59:54,716 --> 00:59:56,467
- And these were people
that you had talked
1486
00:59:56,468 --> 00:59:57,676
about helter skelter.
1487
00:59:57,677 --> 00:59:58,928
You had told them--
- Sure.
1488
00:59:58,929 --> 01:00:00,554
- You told them
that to kill others...
1489
01:00:00,555 --> 01:00:01,764
- Yes, sir.
- Was to give them life.
1490
01:00:01,765 --> 01:00:02,848
- Yeah.
- Barbara...
1491
01:00:02,849 --> 01:00:04,683
- How do you feel
when they call you--
1492
01:00:04,684 --> 01:00:06,936
- Yeah, Wacko Jacko.
Where'd that come from?
1493
01:00:06,937 --> 01:00:08,145
I'm not a wacko.
1494
01:00:08,146 --> 01:00:09,563
KATIE:
Connie Chung...
1495
01:00:09,564 --> 01:00:11,565
- Is it true that he
threatened to break your legs
1496
01:00:11,566 --> 01:00:12,733
and end your career?
1497
01:00:12,734 --> 01:00:14,902
- I did one called Now
with Tom Brokaw.
1498
01:00:14,903 --> 01:00:16,904
We were all in there,
1499
01:00:16,905 --> 01:00:20,825
fighting like hell
to get these "big gets."
1500
01:00:20,826 --> 01:00:23,035
MARTIN:
A good get is someone
1501
01:00:23,036 --> 01:00:27,331
that everybody else is after,
from a movie star...
1502
01:00:27,332 --> 01:00:29,291
BARBARA: Hello, Eric.
- Hello.
1503
01:00:29,292 --> 01:00:30,501
BARBARA:
Hello, Lyle.
1504
01:00:30,502 --> 01:00:31,877
MARTIN:
To a murderer.
1505
01:00:31,878 --> 01:00:33,879
BARBARA: He doesn't need
powder on his nose?
1506
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:35,297
CREW MEMBER:
They say he looks fine.
1507
01:00:35,298 --> 01:00:38,300
- The first
real big tabloid story
1508
01:00:38,301 --> 01:00:40,344
that I think everyone
was fighting for
1509
01:00:40,345 --> 01:00:42,054
were the Menendez brothers.
1510
01:00:42,055 --> 01:00:44,431
- You aren't guilty because
they found you spoiled.
1511
01:00:44,432 --> 01:00:46,183
- Mm-hmm.
Or evil.
1512
01:00:46,184 --> 01:00:47,309
- Or evil.
1513
01:00:47,310 --> 01:00:50,271
- Just a normal--
I'm just a normal kid.
1514
01:00:50,272 --> 01:00:52,565
- Oh, Eric,
you're a normal kid
1515
01:00:52,566 --> 01:00:54,233
who killed your parents!
1516
01:00:54,234 --> 01:00:55,609
- I know.
1517
01:00:55,610 --> 01:00:59,363
MARTIN: Barbara had a small
team of bookers...
1518
01:00:59,364 --> 01:01:02,700
day and night on the phone,
in and out of her office.
1519
01:01:02,701 --> 01:01:05,160
- I always hated the term
"booker"--rhymes with "hooker."
1520
01:01:05,161 --> 01:01:06,954
But...
1521
01:01:06,955 --> 01:01:09,373
So we went
by "editorial producer,"
1522
01:01:09,374 --> 01:01:11,125
which sounds much nicer.
1523
01:01:11,126 --> 01:01:13,627
[line trilling,
telephone ringing]
1524
01:01:13,628 --> 01:01:15,337
When a story breaks,
1525
01:01:15,338 --> 01:01:17,715
everyone's trying to call
these people at the same time.
1526
01:01:17,716 --> 01:01:20,301
And the most important thing
was to get it first.
1527
01:01:20,302 --> 01:01:23,012
We spent a lot of time
on the phone, redialing.
1528
01:01:23,013 --> 01:01:24,513
Speed dial
was a thing back then,
1529
01:01:24,514 --> 01:01:26,557
because you could just, like--
[dial tones beeping rapidly]
1530
01:01:26,558 --> 01:01:29,184
- You'd get on the phone
and schmooze with people.
1531
01:01:29,185 --> 01:01:32,688
And a lot of it involved
handwritten notes,
1532
01:01:32,689 --> 01:01:34,857
sucking up to the assistants.
1533
01:01:34,858 --> 01:01:38,444
There probably were
fruit baskets involved,
1534
01:01:38,445 --> 01:01:40,779
wining and dining.
1535
01:01:40,780 --> 01:01:43,073
It was a real courtship.
1536
01:01:43,074 --> 01:01:44,742
CHRIS:
It was a mad dash
1537
01:01:44,743 --> 01:01:47,119
of the bookers trying to go
get these interviews,
1538
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:48,746
with millions
of dollars at stake.
1539
01:01:48,747 --> 01:01:50,831
I remember Primetime
and 20/20,
1540
01:01:50,832 --> 01:01:52,207
I think at the time,
1541
01:01:52,208 --> 01:01:56,086
were making profit
of about $100 million each.
1542
01:01:56,087 --> 01:01:57,963
- I still sort of have PTSD
1543
01:01:57,964 --> 01:01:59,965
when I see
a "breaking news" logo.
1544
01:01:59,966 --> 01:02:02,176
I hated writing letters
to criminals
1545
01:02:02,177 --> 01:02:03,802
and murderers especially.
1546
01:02:03,803 --> 01:02:07,181
DAVID: Barbara understood
like nobody else
1547
01:02:07,182 --> 01:02:09,642
how to build rapport.
1548
01:02:09,643 --> 01:02:11,060
She would dial the phone.
1549
01:02:11,061 --> 01:02:13,854
$5,000 Van Cleef, Arpels
earring
1550
01:02:13,855 --> 01:02:15,648
would come off the earlobe.
1551
01:02:15,649 --> 01:02:17,816
She would put
the receiver there,
1552
01:02:17,817 --> 01:02:20,110
and then the magic would start.
1553
01:02:20,111 --> 01:02:22,655
KATIE:
There's something unsettling
1554
01:02:22,656 --> 01:02:25,240
about going after people
1555
01:02:25,241 --> 01:02:28,202
in their worst
possible moment.
1556
01:02:28,203 --> 01:02:31,789
I've always tried to do it
in a way that's respectful.
1557
01:02:31,790 --> 01:02:33,874
I think Barbara was
that way, too.
1558
01:02:33,875 --> 01:02:36,168
- The thought did
go through my mind.
1559
01:02:36,169 --> 01:02:38,587
BARBARA:
That you wanted to die?
1560
01:02:38,588 --> 01:02:41,590
- Yeah, I suggested maybe
I should just check out.
1561
01:02:41,591 --> 01:02:44,218
And then Dana said to me,
1562
01:02:44,219 --> 01:02:46,554
"you're still you,
and I love you."
1563
01:02:47,889 --> 01:02:51,475
- And the pitch for Barbara
was that she'll be fair.
1564
01:02:51,476 --> 01:02:54,436
- I've never seen
press reporting
1565
01:02:54,437 --> 01:02:56,438
as I have with regard to me.
1566
01:02:56,439 --> 01:02:58,857
I mean, I wish the public
could understand
1567
01:02:58,858 --> 01:03:01,360
how inherently dishonest
the press is.
1568
01:03:01,361 --> 01:03:03,237
- As a member of the press,
let me try to clear up
1569
01:03:03,238 --> 01:03:05,239
some of the things
which you say are untrue.
1570
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,826
VICTOR: When that person
agrees to do Barbara,
1571
01:03:08,827 --> 01:03:10,244
there's a celebration.
1572
01:03:10,245 --> 01:03:12,246
And it happened often.
1573
01:03:12,247 --> 01:03:13,789
Barbara would run
into my office
1574
01:03:13,790 --> 01:03:15,749
like a little girl
with a new toy.
1575
01:03:15,750 --> 01:03:17,334
"Oh, my God,
I have to talk to you."
1576
01:03:17,335 --> 01:03:19,044
You know, knock on the door.
1577
01:03:19,045 --> 01:03:20,587
[knocking on table]
We got this!
1578
01:03:20,588 --> 01:03:24,174
You know, jumping up
and down, giggling.
1579
01:03:24,175 --> 01:03:26,844
BARBARA:
This is a story
1580
01:03:26,845 --> 01:03:30,222
about crime and punishment.
1581
01:03:30,223 --> 01:03:32,349
MARTIN: Well, Barbara
watched Diane warily,
1582
01:03:32,350 --> 01:03:35,853
because she was really in
the same altitude as Barbara.
1583
01:03:35,854 --> 01:03:38,605
Other correspondents
were not a threat.
1584
01:03:38,606 --> 01:03:40,899
I think Barbara
secretly resented Diane
1585
01:03:40,900 --> 01:03:43,360
for being younger.
1586
01:03:43,361 --> 01:03:45,696
VICTOR: Roone pitted them
against each other...
1587
01:03:45,697 --> 01:03:47,322
- Yeah.
1588
01:03:47,323 --> 01:03:50,701
- Which was either
great management or diabolical.
1589
01:03:50,702 --> 01:03:53,287
PERSON: Tell me about
the feud with Diane Sawyer.
1590
01:03:53,288 --> 01:03:55,706
BARBARA: I don't think
Diane Sawyer and I had a feud.
1591
01:03:55,707 --> 01:03:58,834
I think people know that
we were after the same gets.
1592
01:03:58,835 --> 01:04:01,128
ANNOUNCER: The depth
and wisdom of Barbara Walters
1593
01:04:01,129 --> 01:04:04,882
and Diane Sawyer's warmth
and intelligence...
1594
01:04:04,883 --> 01:04:07,009
VICTOR:
They were on different floors.
1595
01:04:07,010 --> 01:04:08,719
Their edit rooms were
put aside
1596
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,262
to another part of the floor--
1597
01:04:10,263 --> 01:04:12,765
you know, North Korea,
South Korea.
1598
01:04:12,766 --> 01:04:15,059
No members of our staffs
talk to each other
1599
01:04:15,060 --> 01:04:16,894
about what
they were working on.
1600
01:04:16,895 --> 01:04:20,731
- It was just a competitive
space to live in.
1601
01:04:20,732 --> 01:04:22,274
CREW MEMBER:
Texas cheerleader...
1602
01:04:22,275 --> 01:04:24,818
DAVID:
Barbara could be very wily,
1603
01:04:24,819 --> 01:04:26,945
and she wasn't above
dirty tricks and tactics
1604
01:04:26,946 --> 01:04:28,322
that were, in my experience,
1605
01:04:28,323 --> 01:04:29,948
beneath some
of her competitors,
1606
01:04:29,949 --> 01:04:31,784
in particular Diane Sawyer.
1607
01:04:31,785 --> 01:04:34,578
- And now the one and only
Katharine Hepburn.
1608
01:04:34,579 --> 01:04:36,330
CYNTHIA:
Diane had booked,
1609
01:04:36,331 --> 01:04:38,540
fair and square,
Katharine Hepburn.
1610
01:04:38,541 --> 01:04:41,502
And Barbara,
who knew Katharine Hepburn,
1611
01:04:41,503 --> 01:04:46,381
put a lot of pressure on Kate
to unbook and go with her.
1612
01:04:46,382 --> 01:04:49,593
You know, and Kate said,
"No, no..."
1613
01:04:49,594 --> 01:04:51,178
[imitating Katharine Hepburn]
"I promised Diane,
1614
01:04:51,179 --> 01:04:53,305
and I will do it with her."
1615
01:04:53,306 --> 01:04:55,849
- How's that for a statement?
1616
01:04:55,850 --> 01:04:57,684
- [normal voice]
And she did.
1617
01:04:57,685 --> 01:05:01,772
- If I showed up on Mars,
she would have a note there
1618
01:05:01,773 --> 01:05:04,191
with the Barbara Walters
stationery...
1619
01:05:04,192 --> 01:05:05,776
[laughing]
Just requesting an interview
1620
01:05:05,777 --> 01:05:07,778
with anybody
who might happen to show.
1621
01:05:07,779 --> 01:05:09,196
- It's the worst.
1622
01:05:09,197 --> 01:05:11,198
- And you see, with us,
we're competing with Primetime.
1623
01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:12,783
It's not just that
we're competing with you.
1624
01:05:12,784 --> 01:05:14,785
- It's me, and then--
BARBARA: Diane.
1625
01:05:14,786 --> 01:05:16,662
- And then it's you and Diane.
1626
01:05:16,663 --> 01:05:19,248
When Roone Arledge
came to me and said,
1627
01:05:19,249 --> 01:05:22,000
"I'd really like you
to come to ABC News,"
1628
01:05:22,001 --> 01:05:23,752
I said,
"Let me think about that.
1629
01:05:23,753 --> 01:05:24,753
Yes."
1630
01:05:24,754 --> 01:05:27,506
And I went, thinking,
1631
01:05:27,507 --> 01:05:30,175
well, this is very cool.
1632
01:05:30,176 --> 01:05:32,094
Barbara Walters is there.
1633
01:05:32,095 --> 01:05:33,679
Diane Sawyer is there.
1634
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:38,392
We will be a triumvirate
of strong women.
1635
01:05:38,393 --> 01:05:41,145
How stupid am I?
1636
01:05:41,146 --> 01:05:44,231
Because Diane
and Barbara were in this
1637
01:05:44,232 --> 01:05:47,609
monstrous battle
to win stories,
1638
01:05:47,610 --> 01:05:51,738
and I was caught
in the middle.
1639
01:05:51,739 --> 01:05:53,616
CREW MEMBER:
Quiet, please.
1640
01:05:55,702 --> 01:05:57,202
CYNTHIA: I never had
a conversation
1641
01:05:57,203 --> 01:05:58,412
with Diane Sawyer
1642
01:05:58,413 --> 01:06:00,623
about her feelings
about Barbara.
1643
01:06:02,542 --> 01:06:04,126
But I had plenty with Barbara
1644
01:06:04,127 --> 01:06:05,961
about her feelings
about Diane,
1645
01:06:05,962 --> 01:06:08,255
because she was certainly--
1646
01:06:08,256 --> 01:06:10,215
[sighs]
1647
01:06:10,216 --> 01:06:14,344
Dogged by Diane's
very existence.
1648
01:06:14,345 --> 01:06:16,513
She often said
1649
01:06:16,514 --> 01:06:19,933
Diane was the perfect woman.
1650
01:06:19,934 --> 01:06:21,393
DIANE:
Yes, I'm ready.
1651
01:06:21,394 --> 01:06:24,563
CYNTHIA: She used the word,
"a blonde goddess,"
1652
01:06:24,564 --> 01:06:26,440
this ideal woman,
1653
01:06:26,441 --> 01:06:30,903
and that she, Barbara,
couldn't compete with that.
1654
01:06:30,904 --> 01:06:34,489
She could work harder,
she could know more people,
1655
01:06:34,490 --> 01:06:37,451
but she couldn't compete
with that...
1656
01:06:37,452 --> 01:06:39,453
"the blonde goddess."
1657
01:06:39,454 --> 01:06:41,163
VICTOR:
She would say, you know,
1658
01:06:41,164 --> 01:06:44,708
"Diane is married
to Mike Nichols.
1659
01:06:44,709 --> 01:06:46,418
I'm not married
to Mike Nichols."
1660
01:06:46,419 --> 01:06:50,756
I said, "Barbara, you can marry
anybody you want."
1661
01:06:50,757 --> 01:06:54,760
Her insecurities were
really nightmarish.
1662
01:06:54,761 --> 01:06:57,137
- What inspired you
to go into television?
1663
01:06:57,138 --> 01:06:59,765
I mean, did you think,
this is what I want to do?
1664
01:06:59,766 --> 01:07:02,309
- I was a weather girl.
- I know.
1665
01:07:02,310 --> 01:07:03,894
- Yes, a very bad
weather girl.
1666
01:07:03,895 --> 01:07:06,146
CYNTHIA: This has been
interpreted, I think,
1667
01:07:06,147 --> 01:07:08,232
by a lot of people to say that
1668
01:07:08,233 --> 01:07:10,692
Barbara was not good
to other women,
1669
01:07:10,693 --> 01:07:13,403
and I think that is a canard.
1670
01:07:13,404 --> 01:07:15,781
Not at all.
1671
01:07:15,782 --> 01:07:18,659
She couldn't tolerate
having Diane Sawyer rise
1672
01:07:18,660 --> 01:07:22,871
in what she saw
as a direct challenge
1673
01:07:22,872 --> 01:07:25,415
to what she had accomplished.
1674
01:07:25,416 --> 01:07:27,918
What a sadness.
1675
01:07:27,919 --> 01:07:29,836
Talk about the death of joy.
1676
01:07:29,837 --> 01:07:31,546
PERSON:
See you tomorrow, Barbara.
1677
01:07:31,547 --> 01:07:33,173
BARBARA:
Bye!
1678
01:07:33,174 --> 01:07:36,343
CYNTHIA: I think it tore into
all of those parts of herself
1679
01:07:36,344 --> 01:07:39,930
where she felt
as a child she...
1680
01:07:39,931 --> 01:07:41,932
was an outsider.
1681
01:07:41,933 --> 01:07:43,767
In some bizarre way,
1682
01:07:43,768 --> 01:07:45,894
Diane made her feel
1683
01:07:45,895 --> 01:07:49,564
all of those insecurities
all over again.
1684
01:07:49,565 --> 01:07:51,942
If Barbara Walters
couldn't see
1685
01:07:51,943 --> 01:07:54,236
what she brought to the party,
1686
01:07:54,237 --> 01:07:56,363
wow...
1687
01:07:56,364 --> 01:07:58,365
let's learn from that, ladies.
1688
01:07:58,366 --> 01:07:59,825
[scoffs]
1689
01:07:59,826 --> 01:08:02,411
But that drive that had gotten
her there, that--
1690
01:08:02,412 --> 01:08:05,581
it wasn't a switch
she could flip.
1691
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,502
She was gonna show them
that she was the better woman,
1692
01:08:10,503 --> 01:08:15,424
that she was the better booker
to get bigger numbers.
1693
01:08:15,425 --> 01:08:18,135
[dramatic music]
1694
01:08:18,136 --> 01:08:20,637
REPORTER 1: She has never
spoken to the public.
1695
01:08:20,638 --> 01:08:22,931
REPORTER 2: She is a target in
this criminal investigation.
1696
01:08:22,932 --> 01:08:27,644
She is under pressures that we
probably can't even imagine.
1697
01:08:27,645 --> 01:08:30,147
REPORTER 3: No one involved
in this scandal
1698
01:08:30,148 --> 01:08:32,482
will emerge unscarred.
1699
01:08:32,483 --> 01:08:34,985
It begins with a young woman
named Monica Lewinsky.
1700
01:08:34,986 --> 01:08:37,321
CREW MEMBER: We do have speed.
- I'm not ready.
1701
01:08:37,322 --> 01:08:39,239
[laughter]
1702
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,033
- Sitting down
with Barbara Walters
1703
01:08:41,034 --> 01:08:44,202
was not on my bingo card
for my 20s
1704
01:08:44,203 --> 01:08:45,912
for an interview.
1705
01:08:45,913 --> 01:08:47,789
So it was the first time
1706
01:08:47,790 --> 01:08:50,292
that people heard
my voice consensually.
1707
01:08:50,293 --> 01:08:52,544
PERSON 1: How you doing,
Monica? Monica!
1708
01:08:52,545 --> 01:08:55,172
PERSON 2: Monica!
PERSON 3: Monica!
1709
01:08:55,173 --> 01:08:58,091
You have sexual relations
with the president?
1710
01:08:58,092 --> 01:08:59,968
BILL: Indeed,
I did have a relationship
1711
01:08:59,969 --> 01:09:02,471
with Ms. Lewinsky
that was not appropriate.
1712
01:09:02,472 --> 01:09:04,222
MONICA:
It's understandable,
1713
01:09:04,223 --> 01:09:06,850
with how our news world
is set up--
1714
01:09:06,851 --> 01:09:09,770
you and your story
is a commodity.
1715
01:09:09,771 --> 01:09:12,189
PERSON: Back. Move back.
[indistinct chatter]
1716
01:09:12,190 --> 01:09:15,609
It's interesting to see
inside one of these stories
1717
01:09:15,610 --> 01:09:18,278
now that I'm out of it
and older.
1718
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:19,613
One of the ways
1719
01:09:19,614 --> 01:09:22,115
that someone can really
lose their narrative
1720
01:09:22,116 --> 01:09:24,409
is when you don't engage
with the press.
1721
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:26,828
- Relax, people!
Relax, come on!
1722
01:09:26,829 --> 01:09:28,246
MONICA:
Feed the beast--
1723
01:09:28,247 --> 01:09:30,165
you know, you have to give
them something.
1724
01:09:30,166 --> 01:09:31,625
Otherwise, they're starving,
1725
01:09:31,626 --> 01:09:33,543
and they're going
to say whatever they want.
1726
01:09:33,544 --> 01:09:35,003
- Hey, pal, get
your arms off her!
1727
01:09:35,004 --> 01:09:36,963
Get your arms off her!
1728
01:09:36,964 --> 01:09:39,132
- Leave her alone!
1729
01:09:39,133 --> 01:09:43,053
BARBARA: It took a full year
to get the interview.
1730
01:09:43,054 --> 01:09:45,430
- I want some space,
God damn it! Back!
1731
01:09:45,431 --> 01:09:47,891
BARBARA: And it started
with her lawyer,
1732
01:09:47,892 --> 01:09:51,228
whom I had to get on my side--
Bill Ginsburg.
1733
01:09:51,229 --> 01:09:52,854
- I remember William Ginsburg
1734
01:09:52,855 --> 01:09:54,439
would always hold up
his phone.
1735
01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:56,441
He's like,
that's Katie Couric,
1736
01:09:56,442 --> 01:09:58,276
or, that's Diane Sawyer.
1737
01:09:58,277 --> 01:10:00,862
But I always felt
that they wanted Oprah
1738
01:10:00,863 --> 01:10:02,739
to do the interview.
1739
01:10:02,740 --> 01:10:05,617
OPRAH: We had an agreement
with Monica Lewinsky's team,
1740
01:10:05,618 --> 01:10:08,078
and then Barbara swooped in
1741
01:10:08,079 --> 01:10:11,081
and said to Monica Lewinsky,
1742
01:10:11,082 --> 01:10:12,666
"I can give you a better deal.
1743
01:10:12,667 --> 01:10:14,960
"I can not only do
1744
01:10:14,961 --> 01:10:17,504
"a Barbara Walters
prime-time special,
1745
01:10:17,505 --> 01:10:19,464
"but I can offer you
Nightline.
1746
01:10:19,465 --> 01:10:21,425
"I can offer you
Good Morning America.
1747
01:10:21,426 --> 01:10:22,634
I can offer you--"
1748
01:10:22,635 --> 01:10:26,138
And I just had
The Oprah Show, so...
1749
01:10:26,139 --> 01:10:27,347
I didn't like that.
1750
01:10:27,348 --> 01:10:28,849
PERSON:
Monica, over here!
1751
01:10:28,850 --> 01:10:31,476
BARBARA: It was Dr. Lewinsky's
Los Angeles home
1752
01:10:31,477 --> 01:10:34,521
that Monica escaped to
two weeks ago.
1753
01:10:34,522 --> 01:10:36,940
And then I interviewed
her father.
1754
01:10:36,941 --> 01:10:38,859
MONICA:
Barbara's talk with my dad,
1755
01:10:38,860 --> 01:10:41,528
it was respectful
in a way that...
1756
01:10:41,529 --> 01:10:44,114
the foundation
of our relationship
1757
01:10:44,115 --> 01:10:48,493
was built brick by brick
very slowly.
1758
01:10:48,494 --> 01:10:51,121
The first time we met,
1759
01:10:51,122 --> 01:10:54,624
I remember feeling put at ease
quite quickly.
1760
01:10:54,625 --> 01:10:58,628
My dad had said that I had
always been such a good kid,
1761
01:10:58,629 --> 01:11:01,006
like, I didn't do drugs.
I didn't steal.
1762
01:11:01,007 --> 01:11:03,759
I didn't--you know,
I got good grades.
1763
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:05,677
When you think about a kid
who gets into trouble,
1764
01:11:05,678 --> 01:11:07,304
I was not that kid.
1765
01:11:07,305 --> 01:11:09,556
And Barbara,
without missing a beat,
1766
01:11:09,557 --> 01:11:11,892
she was like,
"Next time, shoplift."
1767
01:11:11,893 --> 01:11:14,895
[laughing] You know,
so those little touches
1768
01:11:14,896 --> 01:11:17,481
are all things
that made Barbara Barbara.
1769
01:11:17,482 --> 01:11:19,566
BARBARA: I thought that
I had her trust.
1770
01:11:19,567 --> 01:11:22,027
But she had no money,
1771
01:11:22,028 --> 01:11:24,154
and she was going
to sell her story.
1772
01:11:24,155 --> 01:11:26,490
- We were competing
with international media.
1773
01:11:26,491 --> 01:11:29,117
We were competing
with people, ultimately,
1774
01:11:29,118 --> 01:11:32,162
that were willing to pay a lot
of money for the interview.
1775
01:11:32,163 --> 01:11:35,499
- I said, "Your credibility
is the most important thing."
1776
01:11:35,500 --> 01:11:37,918
MARTIN: It would be
a financial sacrifice
1777
01:11:37,919 --> 01:11:40,128
for Monica to say,
"No, I don't want your money.
1778
01:11:40,129 --> 01:11:41,838
I'm going to do Barbara."
1779
01:11:41,839 --> 01:11:45,133
So we agreed that we would air
in the United States
1780
01:11:45,134 --> 01:11:47,969
our broadcast
once and only once,
1781
01:11:47,970 --> 01:11:50,472
and she was free
to sell her story
1782
01:11:50,473 --> 01:11:52,641
to international broadcasters.
1783
01:11:52,642 --> 01:11:56,144
OPRAH: Because Barbara
had been number one,
1784
01:11:56,145 --> 01:11:57,604
she had been it,
1785
01:11:57,605 --> 01:12:00,774
she had been the madame
for so long,
1786
01:12:00,775 --> 01:12:04,027
that she saw that as her
rightful place in the space.
1787
01:12:04,028 --> 01:12:06,404
And if there was
something that deserved
1788
01:12:06,405 --> 01:12:08,198
a special
one-on-one interview,
1789
01:12:08,199 --> 01:12:09,783
I think she felt
that she was the one
1790
01:12:09,784 --> 01:12:11,117
that was supposed to have it.
1791
01:12:11,118 --> 01:12:15,497
And 9.9 times out of 10,
she got it.
1792
01:12:15,498 --> 01:12:18,291
- I felt like,
sitting down with Barbara,
1793
01:12:18,292 --> 01:12:21,962
it would--
that it would be legitimizing.
1794
01:12:21,963 --> 01:12:24,673
You know, there were
a number of different layers
1795
01:12:24,674 --> 01:12:26,383
and levels of trust
1796
01:12:26,384 --> 01:12:29,845
that we had to meet
in order to get to yes.
1797
01:12:29,846 --> 01:12:31,388
REPORTER: The first
television interview
1798
01:12:31,389 --> 01:12:33,265
with Monica Lewinsky
airs tonight.
1799
01:12:33,266 --> 01:12:35,016
It'll be an in-depth
two-hour exclusive
1800
01:12:35,017 --> 01:12:37,018
with Barbara Walters
on 20/20.
1801
01:12:37,019 --> 01:12:40,230
- She has done this interview
with no payment of any kind,
1802
01:12:40,231 --> 01:12:43,233
and we could ask her
whatever we wanted.
1803
01:12:43,234 --> 01:12:45,443
Monica, this is the first time
1804
01:12:45,444 --> 01:12:47,654
that you have really been
able to speak out
1805
01:12:47,655 --> 01:12:51,032
and say pretty much
anything you wanted to say.
1806
01:12:51,033 --> 01:12:52,243
- Yes.
1807
01:12:54,036 --> 01:12:56,371
I waited a long time
1808
01:12:56,372 --> 01:13:00,792
to be able to express
to the country...
1809
01:13:00,793 --> 01:13:02,794
how very sorry I am
1810
01:13:02,795 --> 01:13:06,131
for my part
in this past year's ordeal.
1811
01:13:06,132 --> 01:13:07,632
Barbara did a wonderful job
1812
01:13:07,633 --> 01:13:10,135
of trying to make me
feel comfortable,
1813
01:13:10,136 --> 01:13:12,095
but I was nervous throughout.
1814
01:13:12,096 --> 01:13:14,723
I remember
that fat stack of cards,
1815
01:13:14,724 --> 01:13:17,642
and I thought, oh, my gosh,
you know, how many questions?
1816
01:13:17,643 --> 01:13:20,020
I think there were
200 questions.
1817
01:13:20,021 --> 01:13:22,856
- I don't want to get
too personal, but...
1818
01:13:22,857 --> 01:13:24,274
whenever I say,
"I don't want to get
1819
01:13:24,275 --> 01:13:25,734
too personal, but,"
then you know--
1820
01:13:25,735 --> 01:13:26,776
- [laughs]
1821
01:13:26,777 --> 01:13:29,988
- It was
an uncomfortable situation.
1822
01:13:29,989 --> 01:13:32,782
It was such a delicate dance.
1823
01:13:32,783 --> 01:13:34,326
Are you going to be
hard on her?
1824
01:13:34,327 --> 01:13:35,452
Is she a victim?
1825
01:13:35,453 --> 01:13:36,995
Is Bill Clinton a perpetrator?
1826
01:13:36,996 --> 01:13:38,705
- The story broke.
1827
01:13:38,706 --> 01:13:41,875
Everyone in the country
now knew...
1828
01:13:41,876 --> 01:13:43,752
Monica Lewinsky.
- [sighs]
1829
01:13:43,753 --> 01:13:45,670
Unfortunately.
1830
01:13:45,671 --> 01:13:49,049
- Barbara tried
to walk that line
1831
01:13:49,050 --> 01:13:53,678
of being fair to her,
being a little tough.
1832
01:13:53,679 --> 01:13:55,597
- You were then required
to discuss
1833
01:13:55,598 --> 01:13:58,433
every intimate detail
of your relationship
1834
01:13:58,434 --> 01:14:00,852
before a grand jury.
1835
01:14:00,853 --> 01:14:03,104
It must have been
excruciating.
1836
01:14:03,105 --> 01:14:05,482
- It was very, very violating.
1837
01:14:05,483 --> 01:14:07,525
Without passing judgment
1838
01:14:07,526 --> 01:14:10,403
on whatever bad choices
I had made,
1839
01:14:10,404 --> 01:14:14,574
I think that she felt that
it would be unfair
1840
01:14:14,575 --> 01:14:16,826
for this to follow me
the rest of my life.
1841
01:14:16,827 --> 01:14:18,745
Is this okay so far?
- You are wonderful.
1842
01:14:18,746 --> 01:14:21,206
You are touching.
You are honest. You are--
1843
01:14:21,207 --> 01:14:23,083
- Okay. I'm just being me, so--
- I know you are.
1844
01:14:23,084 --> 01:14:26,294
I know you are, but I'm
telling you, it is wonderful.
1845
01:14:26,295 --> 01:14:29,798
CHRIS: Barbara threw a party
the night it aired.
1846
01:14:29,799 --> 01:14:32,384
I went downstairs
to go smoke a cigarette,
1847
01:14:32,385 --> 01:14:35,303
and I remember sitting out
on Fifth Avenue
1848
01:14:35,304 --> 01:14:36,846
in front of her apartment,
1849
01:14:36,847 --> 01:14:39,891
and I looked up
at all the TVs.
1850
01:14:39,892 --> 01:14:42,727
And every single TV
1851
01:14:42,728 --> 01:14:45,271
was playing
the Monica Lewinsky interview.
1852
01:14:45,272 --> 01:14:48,483
BARBARA:
It was the highest-rated
1853
01:14:48,484 --> 01:14:50,694
news interview of all time.
1854
01:14:50,695 --> 01:14:53,488
Nothing has surpassed it.
1855
01:14:53,489 --> 01:14:55,365
KATIE: There's a certain
feeling you get
1856
01:14:55,366 --> 01:14:57,117
when you're watching
something,
1857
01:14:57,118 --> 01:15:00,370
knowing that everyone
is watching the same thing
1858
01:15:00,371 --> 01:15:02,789
at that very same moment.
1859
01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:05,417
And that doesn't
exist anymore.
1860
01:15:05,418 --> 01:15:10,672
And I think that's
when Barbara was the queen,
1861
01:15:10,673 --> 01:15:13,466
getting 70 million people
to watch,
1862
01:15:13,467 --> 01:15:17,262
everyone processing it
at the same time.
1863
01:15:17,263 --> 01:15:20,140
- Where do you go from here?
1864
01:15:20,141 --> 01:15:22,767
- I don't know.
1865
01:15:22,768 --> 01:15:25,729
I think I have...
1866
01:15:25,730 --> 01:15:28,815
I have a lot of healing to do.
1867
01:15:28,816 --> 01:15:31,609
I think it was
important to Barbara
1868
01:15:31,610 --> 01:15:34,529
that the interview
had been something
1869
01:15:34,530 --> 01:15:36,364
that was positive for me.
1870
01:15:36,365 --> 01:15:39,242
I just had mixed feelings.
1871
01:15:39,243 --> 01:15:41,411
But as terrifying
and difficult
1872
01:15:41,412 --> 01:15:43,204
as the interview was,
1873
01:15:43,205 --> 01:15:46,791
I finished that day
having felt seen by her.
1874
01:15:46,792 --> 01:15:48,543
BARBARA:
Let's stop tape.
1875
01:15:48,544 --> 01:15:50,296
CREW MEMBER: Stop recording.
Please stop recording.
1876
01:15:53,549 --> 01:15:55,550
[dramatic music]
1877
01:15:55,551 --> 01:15:57,093
♪ ♪
1878
01:15:57,094 --> 01:15:59,387
- Barbara, I just wanted
to go over
1879
01:15:59,388 --> 01:16:02,223
Senator Barbara Boxer
with you.
1880
01:16:02,224 --> 01:16:04,184
PERSON:
You took on a stature
1881
01:16:04,185 --> 01:16:06,895
that no other woman
in the business has ever had.
1882
01:16:06,896 --> 01:16:08,646
- Is she in?
- She's not here yet.
1883
01:16:08,647 --> 01:16:11,524
She should be here
in the next five minutes.
1884
01:16:11,525 --> 01:16:14,235
- Son graduated
summa cum laude from Ithaca.
1885
01:16:14,236 --> 01:16:15,445
- Yep.
- Family week.
1886
01:16:15,446 --> 01:16:16,988
CHARLES:
Arguably,
1887
01:16:16,989 --> 01:16:19,115
you are one of the most
important people
1888
01:16:19,116 --> 01:16:21,242
that have come along
in television news.
1889
01:16:21,243 --> 01:16:24,579
And at some point,
couldn't you say to yourself,
1890
01:16:24,580 --> 01:16:26,664
I don't have anything left
to prove?
1891
01:16:26,665 --> 01:16:30,710
- I always felt I had
something more to prove.
1892
01:16:30,711 --> 01:16:32,629
PERSON:
Okay.
1893
01:16:32,630 --> 01:16:34,380
BARBARA:
Quick, hurry!
1894
01:16:34,381 --> 01:16:36,842
CREW MEMBER:
Four, three, two...
1895
01:16:38,469 --> 01:16:40,261
- I've always wanted to do
a show
1896
01:16:40,262 --> 01:16:42,222
with women
of different generations,
1897
01:16:42,223 --> 01:16:43,640
backgrounds, and views.
1898
01:16:43,641 --> 01:16:45,642
This is that show.
1899
01:16:45,643 --> 01:16:47,227
The View was my idea.
1900
01:16:47,228 --> 01:16:49,896
I didn't know anything
about daytime television.
1901
01:16:49,897 --> 01:16:51,898
It was a simple idea--
1902
01:16:51,899 --> 01:16:55,401
different women
of different generations,
1903
01:16:55,402 --> 01:16:56,611
sitting together.
1904
01:16:56,612 --> 01:16:58,279
You're not married.
You're not married.
1905
01:16:58,280 --> 01:16:59,280
PERSON:
And don't want kids.
1906
01:16:59,281 --> 01:17:00,532
- And don't want--all right.
1907
01:17:00,533 --> 01:17:02,867
And in its way,
it was the first.
1908
01:17:02,868 --> 01:17:04,702
- The one thing
that you shouldn't take
1909
01:17:04,703 --> 01:17:06,788
is stuff from the White House.
1910
01:17:06,789 --> 01:17:09,290
- If everyone stole something
from the White House, Barbara--
1911
01:17:09,291 --> 01:17:10,667
[laughter]
1912
01:17:10,668 --> 01:17:11,793
BARBARA: People thought,
who wants to listen
1913
01:17:11,794 --> 01:17:13,253
to a bunch of women?
1914
01:17:13,254 --> 01:17:16,339
I thought, women want
to listen to a bunch of women.
1915
01:17:16,340 --> 01:17:18,424
I think cards are there
for us to take, not silver.
1916
01:17:18,425 --> 01:17:20,468
PERSON: Where was it,
and how did you steal it?
1917
01:17:20,469 --> 01:17:21,845
- I was visiting--
1918
01:17:21,846 --> 01:17:23,346
- Excuse me!
I'd like to know!
1919
01:17:23,347 --> 01:17:24,973
- We talked
about relationships.
1920
01:17:24,974 --> 01:17:26,975
We talked about pop culture.
1921
01:17:26,976 --> 01:17:28,893
We talked
about personal stories.
1922
01:17:28,894 --> 01:17:31,771
If one of us had a fight
with our husband, oh, great,
1923
01:17:31,772 --> 01:17:33,231
that's grist for the mill,
you know.
1924
01:17:33,232 --> 01:17:34,440
- Now you're even
getting dates.
1925
01:17:34,441 --> 01:17:35,650
You told us you never
had dates before.
1926
01:17:35,651 --> 01:17:38,027
- I know.
I'd always get dumped.
1927
01:17:38,028 --> 01:17:40,071
- Not wearing underwear.
That's what I do.
1928
01:17:40,072 --> 01:17:41,322
It's much easier.
What is--
1929
01:17:41,323 --> 01:17:42,740
ELLEN: Really?
- Yeah, I'm serious.
1930
01:17:42,741 --> 01:17:46,202
What is next for you?
[laughter]
1931
01:17:46,203 --> 01:17:48,788
- You share so much
on the show.
1932
01:17:48,789 --> 01:17:52,292
[cheers and applause]
1933
01:17:52,293 --> 01:17:54,085
LORI:
When Saturday Night Live
1934
01:17:54,086 --> 01:17:55,545
started spoofing The View,
1935
01:17:55,546 --> 01:17:57,630
they knew that
they had really made it.
1936
01:17:57,631 --> 01:17:59,299
- Ladies, let me tell you--
1937
01:17:59,300 --> 01:18:03,803
I haven't felt this girlishly
giddy since I was 70.
1938
01:18:03,804 --> 01:18:06,222
ANDY: There was absolutely
nothing like The View
1939
01:18:06,223 --> 01:18:08,057
on television at the time.
1940
01:18:08,058 --> 01:18:11,477
It was all about
the most controversial topics,
1941
01:18:11,478 --> 01:18:14,772
things that you had never seen
1942
01:18:14,773 --> 01:18:16,816
women talking about
on television.
1943
01:18:16,817 --> 01:18:19,277
BARBARA: The two brides
are married to each other,
1944
01:18:19,278 --> 01:18:22,238
and the men are married
to each other.
1945
01:18:22,239 --> 01:18:25,116
- And it was fascinating then,
and it still is.
1946
01:18:25,117 --> 01:18:27,994
- And as you can see,
this program is live.
1947
01:18:27,995 --> 01:18:29,329
It's unrehearsed.
1948
01:18:29,330 --> 01:18:31,623
Sometimes I wish
it were rehearsed.
1949
01:18:31,624 --> 01:18:34,417
JOY: I think it's very popular
because it's spontaneous,
1950
01:18:34,418 --> 01:18:36,127
because they don't know
what's gonna come
1951
01:18:36,128 --> 01:18:38,004
out of their mouths--
our mouths.
1952
01:18:38,005 --> 01:18:40,590
I keep forgetting
I'm on the show.
1953
01:18:40,591 --> 01:18:43,551
Just to hear Barbara Walters
say the words "oral sex"
1954
01:18:43,552 --> 01:18:45,762
is worth the price
of admission.
1955
01:18:45,763 --> 01:18:48,056
I mean, you never know
what we're going to say,
1956
01:18:48,057 --> 01:18:50,558
and I think that that's a very
important part of the show.
1957
01:18:50,559 --> 01:18:53,019
The arguing back and forth
can get out of control.
1958
01:18:53,020 --> 01:18:55,271
WHOOPI: What do you call this?
- Muslims killed us on 9/11!
1959
01:18:55,272 --> 01:18:57,273
WHOOPI:
No! Oh, my God!
1960
01:18:57,274 --> 01:18:59,233
That is such bullshit!
1961
01:18:59,234 --> 01:19:02,487
ANDY: I think it works because
it's live, it's topical.
1962
01:19:02,488 --> 01:19:06,616
It features women who have
very strong personalities,
1963
01:19:06,617 --> 01:19:08,868
and there's conflict
in every episode.
1964
01:19:08,869 --> 01:19:10,828
- You're outraged about--
1965
01:19:10,829 --> 01:19:12,789
Muslims killed us on 9/11.
1966
01:19:12,790 --> 01:19:14,916
[cheers and applause]
1967
01:19:14,917 --> 01:19:16,584
BARBARA:
I want to say something.
1968
01:19:16,585 --> 01:19:18,795
We should be able
to have discussions
1969
01:19:18,796 --> 01:19:21,589
without washing our hands
and screaming
1970
01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:23,132
and walking offstage.
1971
01:19:23,133 --> 01:19:24,342
I love my colleagues.
1972
01:19:24,343 --> 01:19:25,760
That should not have happened.
1973
01:19:25,761 --> 01:19:27,178
JOY:
Well, at one point,
1974
01:19:27,179 --> 01:19:29,097
we were on the cover of
The New York Times Magazine
1975
01:19:29,098 --> 01:19:31,391
as the top political show
to go to.
1976
01:19:31,392 --> 01:19:33,017
- You really think
that being on the show
1977
01:19:33,018 --> 01:19:35,019
with a bunch of women
who never shut up
1978
01:19:35,020 --> 01:19:36,354
is going to be calming?
1979
01:19:36,355 --> 01:19:38,439
- I was trying to find a show
1980
01:19:38,440 --> 01:19:40,191
that Michelle
actually watched.
1981
01:19:40,192 --> 01:19:42,527
[laughter]
And so I thought--
1982
01:19:42,528 --> 01:19:45,113
- And this is it.
- This is it, right here.
1983
01:19:45,114 --> 01:19:47,865
LORI: In the beginning,
Barbara was...
1984
01:19:47,866 --> 01:19:51,452
much more like Barbara
in the anchor chair.
1985
01:19:51,453 --> 01:19:54,372
- As you notice, I never
give opinions on anything.
1986
01:19:54,373 --> 01:19:57,208
PERSON: Oh, no, not ever.
- I really don't, but--
1987
01:19:57,209 --> 01:20:00,461
LORI: And then over time,
she loosened up.
1988
01:20:00,462 --> 01:20:01,796
- Okay, I agree with you.
Fine.
1989
01:20:01,797 --> 01:20:04,424
- Really? Okay.
- All right, then.
1990
01:20:04,425 --> 01:20:07,844
LORI:
She laughed a lot.
1991
01:20:07,845 --> 01:20:10,054
We all laughed a lot.
1992
01:20:10,055 --> 01:20:12,056
ANDY: It definitely allowed
another part
1993
01:20:12,057 --> 01:20:14,475
of Barbara Walters'
personality to show.
1994
01:20:14,476 --> 01:20:16,102
- How would you pick up a man
1995
01:20:16,103 --> 01:20:18,146
if you wanted a one-night
stand, just for sex, Barbara?
1996
01:20:18,147 --> 01:20:19,689
PERSON:
The same way you do it.
1997
01:20:19,690 --> 01:20:21,691
- How would I pick up
a man just for sex?
1998
01:20:21,692 --> 01:20:23,568
- I want to know how Barbara--
1999
01:20:23,569 --> 01:20:25,486
I want to know how--
because, you know--
2000
01:20:25,487 --> 01:20:26,904
- Are you crazy?
2001
01:20:26,905 --> 01:20:28,906
- According to surveys,
you like a lot of sex, Barbara.
2002
01:20:28,907 --> 01:20:32,493
- Here we go.
One, two, three.
2003
01:20:32,494 --> 01:20:34,162
LORI:
She was in her late 60s
2004
01:20:34,163 --> 01:20:35,580
when she started The View,
2005
01:20:35,581 --> 01:20:40,126
but she was just full
of life and energy.
2006
01:20:40,127 --> 01:20:42,253
- Oh!
2007
01:20:42,254 --> 01:20:45,506
- I think that she wanted
this show for her retirement.
2008
01:20:45,507 --> 01:20:47,592
She knew that her days
were numbered,
2009
01:20:47,593 --> 01:20:51,304
and so she wanted a show as
she went into her later years.
2010
01:20:51,305 --> 01:20:55,975
- She got older on air,
and she stayed there.
2011
01:20:55,976 --> 01:20:59,772
She would not let anybody
kick her high heels off.
2012
01:21:01,148 --> 01:21:03,316
ANDY:
One of the last times
2013
01:21:03,317 --> 01:21:06,235
I guest-hosted The View,
2014
01:21:06,236 --> 01:21:09,072
it was the morning
after the Oscars,
2015
01:21:09,073 --> 01:21:11,157
and Barbara said on the air
2016
01:21:11,158 --> 01:21:14,327
that she didn't really get
American Hustle.
2017
01:21:14,328 --> 01:21:16,788
- You didn't get it?
- I did not get it.
2018
01:21:16,789 --> 01:21:18,956
- I have to say,
a lot of people
2019
01:21:18,957 --> 01:21:22,126
of a different generation
didn't understand.
2020
01:21:22,127 --> 01:21:24,295
Is that bad to say?
I mean, no--
2021
01:21:24,296 --> 01:21:27,006
- Well, you just said it,
so, yeah.
2022
01:21:27,007 --> 01:21:30,385
- Soon after I said that,
they went to commercial break.
2023
01:21:30,386 --> 01:21:33,930
As the camera was swooping
around the table,
2024
01:21:33,931 --> 01:21:36,140
Barbara is lunging at me,
2025
01:21:36,141 --> 01:21:40,937
saying, "How dare you
insult me on my own show?"
2026
01:21:40,938 --> 01:21:44,524
- I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry, but...
2027
01:21:44,525 --> 01:21:46,901
I got my ass handed to me
by Barbara Walters.
2028
01:21:46,902 --> 01:21:48,903
I mean, few can say that.
2029
01:21:48,904 --> 01:21:51,572
Or maybe a handful...
2030
01:21:51,573 --> 01:21:52,657
or more.
2031
01:21:52,658 --> 01:21:54,784
- Oh, oh, oh, excuse me...
2032
01:21:54,785 --> 01:21:56,452
JOY: Nothing was ever enough
for Barbara,
2033
01:21:56,453 --> 01:21:59,497
but that was the secret
to keep getting better
2034
01:21:59,498 --> 01:22:00,998
and striving all the time.
2035
01:22:00,999 --> 01:22:04,001
And I think that her personal
life suffered because of that.
2036
01:22:04,002 --> 01:22:06,379
BARBARA: Young people
come up to me and say,
2037
01:22:06,380 --> 01:22:07,797
"I wish I could be you.
2038
01:22:07,798 --> 01:22:09,423
I wish I could have
a life like yours."
2039
01:22:09,424 --> 01:22:13,636
And I say, "You have to take
the whole package."
2040
01:22:13,637 --> 01:22:15,805
I have a daughter
whom I adore,
2041
01:22:15,806 --> 01:22:18,766
who is simply wonderful
and went through--
2042
01:22:18,767 --> 01:22:20,935
and she talks about it--
a bad period.
2043
01:22:20,936 --> 01:22:22,437
You did this with your child.
- Yes.
2044
01:22:22,438 --> 01:22:24,981
- To this day--
And my daughter is terrific.
2045
01:22:24,982 --> 01:22:27,024
And I adore her.
2046
01:22:27,025 --> 01:22:28,025
She's wonderful.
2047
01:22:28,026 --> 01:22:30,403
To this day, I feel guilty.
2048
01:22:30,404 --> 01:22:33,739
[ringing, indistinct chatter]
2049
01:22:33,740 --> 01:22:36,033
CREW MEMBER:
Are we ready?
2050
01:22:36,034 --> 01:22:38,286
[indistinct chatter]
2051
01:22:38,287 --> 01:22:40,413
CYNTHIA:
Who's your real mother?
2052
01:22:40,414 --> 01:22:41,539
- Barbara.
2053
01:22:41,540 --> 01:22:43,833
CYNTHIA:
Jackie, Barbara's daughter,
2054
01:22:43,834 --> 01:22:46,586
was about as different
from her mom
2055
01:22:46,587 --> 01:22:48,463
as it would have been
possible to be.
2056
01:22:48,464 --> 01:22:51,507
Jackie never wanted
the spotlight.
2057
01:22:51,508 --> 01:22:54,010
So when I got a phone call
from Barbara
2058
01:22:54,011 --> 01:22:55,803
saying she wanted me
to interview Jackie,
2059
01:22:55,804 --> 01:22:57,221
I was really stunned.
2060
01:22:57,222 --> 01:22:59,390
The more we can forget
2061
01:22:59,391 --> 01:23:01,350
that the rest of these people
are here,
2062
01:23:01,351 --> 01:23:03,811
the more we can just talk
the way we would really talk...
2063
01:23:03,812 --> 01:23:05,771
- Yeah.
- The better this will be.
2064
01:23:05,772 --> 01:23:08,024
It was going to be
a special on adoption.
2065
01:23:08,025 --> 01:23:09,859
Barbara knew I was adopted.
2066
01:23:09,860 --> 01:23:11,652
- Why does she look
washed out?
2067
01:23:11,653 --> 01:23:14,071
CREW MEMBER: Because we're
still correcting the pictures.
2068
01:23:14,072 --> 01:23:15,364
BARBARA:
That's better.
2069
01:23:15,365 --> 01:23:16,616
CYNTHIA:
It was nerve-racking,
2070
01:23:16,617 --> 01:23:18,618
because Barbara was the boss.
2071
01:23:18,619 --> 01:23:20,286
BARBARA: No, let me ask
the two of you.
2072
01:23:20,287 --> 01:23:21,412
- All right, it's your show.
2073
01:23:21,413 --> 01:23:23,289
I had Barbara sitting
right there
2074
01:23:23,290 --> 01:23:26,626
as I'm talking to Jackie
right there, and...
2075
01:23:26,627 --> 01:23:29,212
I could feel her presence.
2076
01:23:29,213 --> 01:23:30,630
What was harder,
2077
01:23:30,631 --> 01:23:34,008
being adopted or being
the child of a famous woman?
2078
01:23:34,009 --> 01:23:37,053
- Oh, being the child
of a famous woman, hands down.
2079
01:23:37,054 --> 01:23:38,262
Hands down.
2080
01:23:38,263 --> 01:23:40,556
CYNTHIA: Because?
JACKIE: Because--
2081
01:23:40,557 --> 01:23:43,309
and this is where I think
the adoption came into play--
2082
01:23:43,310 --> 01:23:46,229
I mean, I could be
the bum down there
2083
01:23:46,230 --> 01:23:48,564
on the street corner's child.
2084
01:23:48,565 --> 01:23:50,399
That is not unrealistic.
2085
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:52,318
And here I am today,
2086
01:23:52,319 --> 01:23:54,695
made up, dressed up,
and it's interesting,
2087
01:23:54,696 --> 01:23:59,116
because it's almost like
I was pasted into this world.
2088
01:23:59,117 --> 01:24:01,869
And yet, I want to be--
2089
01:24:01,870 --> 01:24:02,995
I am--
2090
01:24:02,996 --> 01:24:04,956
I mean, I don't want to be--
I am so regular.
2091
01:24:04,957 --> 01:24:07,291
CYNTHIA: Part of
the unarticulated issue is,
2092
01:24:07,292 --> 01:24:09,877
Barbara wanted to live
at the top of the food chain,
2093
01:24:09,878 --> 01:24:12,463
and Jackie wasn't
a competitive person.
2094
01:24:12,464 --> 01:24:15,383
Did you ever, as a child,
2095
01:24:15,384 --> 01:24:19,053
even in anger, say to her,
"You're not my real mother"?
2096
01:24:19,054 --> 01:24:20,304
- Yes, once.
2097
01:24:20,305 --> 01:24:22,307
But I was a pretty bad child.
2098
01:24:23,308 --> 01:24:25,977
JACKIE: So I did once, and I
felt pretty bad about it.
2099
01:24:25,978 --> 01:24:28,854
CYNTHIA: Have you ever said
that you were sorry?
2100
01:24:28,855 --> 01:24:30,940
- I've said I'm sorry
for so many things...
2101
01:24:30,941 --> 01:24:33,359
[laughs]
2102
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:35,945
For putting through
all that torture.
2103
01:24:35,946 --> 01:24:38,155
[laughs]
2104
01:24:38,156 --> 01:24:40,157
That's--it's part of it.
It's all part of it.
2105
01:24:40,158 --> 01:24:42,535
I was sorry
for my whole teenage years.
2106
01:24:42,536 --> 01:24:44,078
It was awful.
2107
01:24:44,079 --> 01:24:46,247
CYNTHIA: I just thought
Jackie was wonderful--
2108
01:24:46,248 --> 01:24:49,500
very loving towards Barbara,
even though...
2109
01:24:49,501 --> 01:24:51,502
I knew that she and her mother
2110
01:24:51,503 --> 01:24:53,254
had had
a really rough relationship
2111
01:24:53,255 --> 01:24:54,839
when she was an adolescent.
2112
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:56,507
Did we do what you wanted?
2113
01:24:56,508 --> 01:24:58,259
BARBARA:
Perfect, perfect, perfect!
2114
01:24:58,260 --> 01:25:01,929
[soft music]
2115
01:25:01,930 --> 01:25:03,848
Oh, wow.
2116
01:25:03,849 --> 01:25:06,559
[laughter]
2117
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:08,227
CYNTHIA:
As she got older, I think
2118
01:25:08,228 --> 01:25:11,564
Barbara felt that
the relationship was shaky.
2119
01:25:11,565 --> 01:25:13,524
She didn't tell me
enough of the facts
2120
01:25:13,525 --> 01:25:15,985
to make me understand
why she felt that way,
2121
01:25:15,986 --> 01:25:18,195
but it seemed to me
2122
01:25:18,196 --> 01:25:20,781
that she felt...
2123
01:25:20,782 --> 01:25:23,784
that she and Jackie had
fallen out again.
2124
01:25:23,785 --> 01:25:27,788
♪ ♪
2125
01:25:27,789 --> 01:25:30,792
[indistinct chatter]
2126
01:25:34,755 --> 01:25:37,715
BARBARA: Look, are there times
when I look at people--
2127
01:25:37,716 --> 01:25:39,175
I have a friend, for example,
2128
01:25:39,176 --> 01:25:42,595
who's got 4 children
and 11 grandchildren.
2129
01:25:42,596 --> 01:25:44,347
She says, "Look at your life."
2130
01:25:44,348 --> 01:25:46,349
And I said,
"Look at your life,
2131
01:25:46,350 --> 01:25:48,517
I mean, how rich you are."
2132
01:25:48,518 --> 01:25:52,688
4 children, 11 grandchildren--
that's richness.
2133
01:25:52,689 --> 01:25:55,483
But I don't have that.
I didn't take that path.
2134
01:25:55,484 --> 01:26:00,112
KATIE: I felt like she
neglected her personal life
2135
01:26:00,113 --> 01:26:04,033
and poured so much
into her work life
2136
01:26:04,034 --> 01:26:06,035
that I'm not sure
2137
01:26:06,036 --> 01:26:09,038
she was a truly happy person.
2138
01:26:09,039 --> 01:26:11,207
And I remember thinking,
2139
01:26:11,208 --> 01:26:15,086
I want to make sure
that I have a family,
2140
01:26:15,087 --> 01:26:16,587
that...
2141
01:26:16,588 --> 01:26:19,048
I don't just have a big job.
2142
01:26:19,049 --> 01:26:22,593
And I always got the sense
that Barbara wishes
2143
01:26:22,594 --> 01:26:26,347
she had paid
more attention to that.
2144
01:26:26,348 --> 01:26:28,808
- I never got the sense
from talking to her
2145
01:26:28,809 --> 01:26:31,268
that there was one
absolute love of her life.
2146
01:26:31,269 --> 01:26:33,437
Her job was
the love of her life.
2147
01:26:33,438 --> 01:26:35,314
I mean, when she would glow,
2148
01:26:35,315 --> 01:26:39,402
she didn't glow talking
about the men in her life.
2149
01:26:39,403 --> 01:26:42,321
She would glow talking
about creating The View.
2150
01:26:42,322 --> 01:26:46,659
She was as driven a person
as I've ever met.
2151
01:26:46,660 --> 01:26:49,495
- As a matter of fact,
I talked to David Axelrod
2152
01:26:49,496 --> 01:26:51,831
and never would go
over your head.
2153
01:26:51,832 --> 01:26:55,835
When the president
was on in July,
2154
01:26:55,836 --> 01:26:57,378
I said, we'd love
to do something.
2155
01:26:57,379 --> 01:26:59,839
OPRAH: I remember having
a conversation with her
2156
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:03,092
when they were canceling
the prime-time specials,
2157
01:27:03,093 --> 01:27:04,593
and she was saying,
2158
01:27:04,594 --> 01:27:06,470
"Well, no, we just can't get
the numbers anymore."
2159
01:27:06,471 --> 01:27:08,472
I think that was
really hard for her.
2160
01:27:08,473 --> 01:27:12,852
There really is no place
for a Barbara Walters...
2161
01:27:12,853 --> 01:27:14,937
interview now
2162
01:27:14,938 --> 01:27:17,231
because everybody does
their own interviews.
2163
01:27:17,232 --> 01:27:19,108
Everybody's on Instagram.
2164
01:27:19,109 --> 01:27:21,193
Everybody's on social media.
2165
01:27:21,194 --> 01:27:22,903
- Is everybody in position?
2166
01:27:22,904 --> 01:27:24,280
Are we all ready?
2167
01:27:24,281 --> 01:27:26,699
OPRAH:
Nobody needs an interviewer
2168
01:27:26,700 --> 01:27:29,118
to get them
to tell the story anymore,
2169
01:27:29,119 --> 01:27:31,120
because they've
already told it.
2170
01:27:31,121 --> 01:27:32,663
CREW MEMBER: We have some.
- Thank you.
2171
01:27:32,664 --> 01:27:35,541
ANDY: Barbara Walters was one
of the most trusted people
2172
01:27:35,542 --> 01:27:37,835
on television.
2173
01:27:37,836 --> 01:27:39,086
Times have changed.
2174
01:27:39,087 --> 01:27:41,672
There won't be
that one person anymore.
2175
01:27:41,673 --> 01:27:43,299
CREW MEMBER: Okay, we're just
going to roll tape.
2176
01:27:43,300 --> 01:27:45,676
Your mic is fine, Barbara.
- Okay.
2177
01:27:45,677 --> 01:27:48,095
After 25 years--
2178
01:27:48,096 --> 01:27:50,097
Ah, blech,
let me take that again.
2179
01:27:50,098 --> 01:27:51,891
CREW MEMBER:
No problem.
2180
01:27:51,892 --> 01:27:55,102
- Lucy, after 25 years
of doing a weekly series,
2181
01:27:55,103 --> 01:27:58,481
you stopped in 1974.
2182
01:27:58,482 --> 01:27:59,940
Then what was it like?
2183
01:27:59,941 --> 01:28:01,358
You got up in the morning,
2184
01:28:01,359 --> 01:28:03,319
and you didn't have to run
to work.
2185
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:06,363
- Traumatic. Very.
2186
01:28:06,364 --> 01:28:08,282
Well, for the first three
or four months,
2187
01:28:08,283 --> 01:28:10,451
I was--I was in limbo.
2188
01:28:10,452 --> 01:28:13,078
I was just... in shock.
2189
01:28:13,079 --> 01:28:16,665
There wasn't anything I wanted
to do but go back to work.
2190
01:28:16,666 --> 01:28:19,043
REPORTER: After a lifetime
of groundbreaking interviews,
2191
01:28:19,044 --> 01:28:21,879
ABC's legendary
Barbara Walters
2192
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:23,506
is stepping down.
2193
01:28:23,507 --> 01:28:26,550
- She wasn't going to retire--
2194
01:28:26,551 --> 01:28:29,345
I was about to say
"voluntarily," but it's not--
2195
01:28:29,346 --> 01:28:31,597
She had no plans
to retire, ever.
2196
01:28:31,598 --> 01:28:33,349
- It's--it's been wonderful,
2197
01:28:33,350 --> 01:28:36,143
and I have very...
2198
01:28:36,144 --> 01:28:39,313
mixed feelings,
very bittersweet feelings
2199
01:28:39,314 --> 01:28:41,774
because I don't know
how you say goodbye
2200
01:28:41,775 --> 01:28:45,402
to something like
50 years in television.
2201
01:28:45,403 --> 01:28:48,030
I just did
the David Letterman show,
2202
01:28:48,031 --> 01:28:50,991
and we were whispering
to each other.
2203
01:28:50,992 --> 01:28:52,535
He said, "I don't really want
to leave."
2204
01:28:52,536 --> 01:28:54,203
I said, "I don't really want
to leave."
2205
01:28:54,204 --> 01:28:55,996
[laughter]
2206
01:28:55,997 --> 01:28:58,958
CYNTHIA: The View had
extended her shelf life
2207
01:28:58,959 --> 01:29:00,751
for, you know, a good decade.
2208
01:29:00,752 --> 01:29:05,297
But, finally,
with tremendous anger--
2209
01:29:05,298 --> 01:29:06,757
not at anyone
2210
01:29:06,758 --> 01:29:09,093
but at the fact that...
2211
01:29:09,094 --> 01:29:11,887
it was inevitably going
to end--
2212
01:29:11,888 --> 01:29:14,098
the dimming of the light...
2213
01:29:14,099 --> 01:29:17,393
angry at the dimming
of the light.
2214
01:29:17,394 --> 01:29:19,937
- Let's raise a glass--
2215
01:29:19,938 --> 01:29:22,231
Barbara Walters.
ALL: Barbara!
2216
01:29:22,232 --> 01:29:23,607
[applause]
- Thank you.
2217
01:29:23,608 --> 01:29:25,818
- Showbiz, the news
was her life.
2218
01:29:25,819 --> 01:29:27,444
It's not like she was home,
you know,
2219
01:29:27,445 --> 01:29:29,071
doing papier-mâché puppets.
2220
01:29:29,072 --> 01:29:32,199
[chuckles] You know,
she really didn't have a hobby.
2221
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:34,034
- People keep asking me
what my hobbies are,
2222
01:29:34,035 --> 01:29:35,452
and I think,
who has time for hobbies?
2223
01:29:35,453 --> 01:29:37,371
My work is my hobby.
- Right. No, exactly.
2224
01:29:37,372 --> 01:29:38,914
If we love our work,
2225
01:29:38,915 --> 01:29:41,375
then perhaps we don't have
to have hobbies.
2226
01:29:41,376 --> 01:29:42,543
CHRIS: When she got older
2227
01:29:42,544 --> 01:29:44,295
and was living
in that apartment,
2228
01:29:44,296 --> 01:29:46,171
it must have been
awful for her.
2229
01:29:46,172 --> 01:29:49,592
You know, she wanted to go out
and meet a murderer.
2230
01:29:49,593 --> 01:29:51,468
She wanted to interview them.
2231
01:29:51,469 --> 01:29:53,137
She wanted the sport of it.
2232
01:29:53,138 --> 01:29:55,306
That's why she woke up
every day.
2233
01:29:55,307 --> 01:29:57,600
- We're all set?
CREW MEMBER: Yes.
2234
01:29:57,601 --> 01:30:00,603
BETTE: She spoke to the
leaders of the Free World,
2235
01:30:00,604 --> 01:30:04,148
the unfree world--
I mean, power brokers.
2236
01:30:04,149 --> 01:30:06,859
I don't really know
people like that.
2237
01:30:06,860 --> 01:30:10,696
And I think hers was one
of the biggest lives
2238
01:30:10,697 --> 01:30:14,283
that had been lived
up till that time.
2239
01:30:14,284 --> 01:30:18,454
CINDY:
If you went into her house...
2240
01:30:18,455 --> 01:30:21,415
every picture was
Barbara Walters with this,
2241
01:30:21,416 --> 01:30:24,251
Barbara Walters with that.
2242
01:30:24,252 --> 01:30:27,463
Probably Barbara Walters
with George Washington.
2243
01:30:27,464 --> 01:30:28,839
I don't know.
2244
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:30,133
She knew them all.
2245
01:30:32,928 --> 01:30:34,678
- Push down your tie.
2246
01:30:34,679 --> 01:30:36,513
What kept you going?
2247
01:30:36,514 --> 01:30:39,975
- Drive, some crazed drive,
knowing I was right.
2248
01:30:39,976 --> 01:30:42,394
DAVID: Television news,
it was Imperial Rome.
2249
01:30:42,395 --> 01:30:44,813
Infinite resources,
2250
01:30:44,814 --> 01:30:48,108
the ability to get anyone,
talk to anyone.
2251
01:30:48,109 --> 01:30:50,194
She was the epicenter of that.
2252
01:30:50,195 --> 01:30:52,321
- You have everything
the way you wanted it?
2253
01:30:52,322 --> 01:30:54,198
MARTIN:
You'd be hard-pressed to find
2254
01:30:54,199 --> 01:30:56,367
anything close
to the combination
2255
01:30:56,368 --> 01:30:59,161
of intelligence and grit...
2256
01:30:59,162 --> 01:31:01,997
- Just do a cutaway.
Then just do a cut--fine.
2257
01:31:01,998 --> 01:31:05,292
MARTIN: And understanding
of the medium and of people.
2258
01:31:05,293 --> 01:31:07,086
BARBARA: Whatever
little success I've had,
2259
01:31:07,087 --> 01:31:08,754
you said, I did it myself.
2260
01:31:08,755 --> 01:31:11,715
I thought it out,
and I listened to my instincts.
2261
01:31:11,716 --> 01:31:14,301
BOB: She wasn't modeled
after anyone else.
2262
01:31:14,302 --> 01:31:15,803
- The night has finally come
for me, and...
2263
01:31:15,804 --> 01:31:17,513
BOB: I think that's
actually something
2264
01:31:17,514 --> 01:31:18,764
people don't realize.
2265
01:31:18,765 --> 01:31:22,518
She is a role model,
but she created the model.
2266
01:31:22,519 --> 01:31:24,812
- The fact is that
you are the touchstone,
2267
01:31:24,813 --> 01:31:26,772
and I don't know
a single woman in this business
2268
01:31:26,773 --> 01:31:28,565
who doesn't come to you
at some time or the other
2269
01:31:28,566 --> 01:31:30,234
and say, "Help, help."
2270
01:31:30,235 --> 01:31:31,777
- Well, this will be cut out,
so thanks a lot.
2271
01:31:31,778 --> 01:31:33,195
- This will be cut out. Right.
[laughter]
2272
01:31:33,196 --> 01:31:35,948
- I need a--an ending.
2273
01:31:35,949 --> 01:31:40,119
I would like a nice,
warm, sympathetic ending.
2274
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:43,122
[cheers and applause]
2275
01:31:43,123 --> 01:31:46,083
[soft music]
2276
01:31:46,084 --> 01:31:51,880
♪ ♪
2277
01:31:51,881 --> 01:31:53,674
OPRAH:
We all proudly stand
2278
01:31:53,675 --> 01:31:55,926
on your shoulders,
Barbara Walters,
2279
01:31:55,927 --> 01:31:57,136
as we honor you.
2280
01:31:57,137 --> 01:32:00,431
Please welcome Diane Sawyer,
2281
01:32:00,432 --> 01:32:03,183
Robin Roberts, Lara Spencer,
2282
01:32:03,184 --> 01:32:07,187
Elizabeth Vargas, Amy Robach,
2283
01:32:07,188 --> 01:32:10,607
Deborah Roberts, JuJu Chang,
2284
01:32:10,608 --> 01:32:12,693
Katie Couric, Savannah...
2285
01:32:12,694 --> 01:32:14,403
LORI:
And that day when
2286
01:32:14,404 --> 01:32:19,074
they brought in all
of those women to salute her
2287
01:32:19,075 --> 01:32:22,411
was the most touching,
beautiful day
2288
01:32:22,412 --> 01:32:23,871
that I could remember.
2289
01:32:23,872 --> 01:32:25,622
It was bittersweet.
2290
01:32:25,623 --> 01:32:28,876
OPRAH: And I think
she knew after a time
2291
01:32:28,877 --> 01:32:32,379
that what she had done
helped open the door
2292
01:32:32,380 --> 01:32:34,381
for women like myself
2293
01:32:34,382 --> 01:32:38,177
and every other woman
who crossed that threshold.
2294
01:32:38,178 --> 01:32:41,722
KATIE: Barbara went through
hell getting to where she was,
2295
01:32:41,723 --> 01:32:44,850
and I think she wanted
to be recognized for that.
2296
01:32:44,851 --> 01:32:47,311
And I hope she felt
our appreciation,
2297
01:32:47,312 --> 01:32:49,021
because I think
it was really there.
2298
01:32:49,022 --> 01:32:51,815
[cheers and applause,
indistinct chatter]
2299
01:32:51,816 --> 01:32:54,026
- I'm so proud of you.
2300
01:32:54,027 --> 01:32:56,612
You're back at the anchor,
and you made it.
2301
01:32:56,613 --> 01:32:59,281
I just want to say,
this is my--
2302
01:32:59,282 --> 01:33:01,909
oh, this is my legacy.
2303
01:33:01,910 --> 01:33:05,329
These are my legacy,
and I thank you, all of you.
2304
01:33:05,330 --> 01:33:07,247
[cheers and applause]
2305
01:33:07,248 --> 01:33:09,666
How do you hope
to be remembered?
2306
01:33:09,667 --> 01:33:12,544
When women say,
"Oh, you paved the way,"
2307
01:33:12,545 --> 01:33:13,962
I didn't do it deliberately.
2308
01:33:13,963 --> 01:33:15,380
I wasn't waving a flag.
2309
01:33:15,381 --> 01:33:17,424
I wasn't stomping my feet.
2310
01:33:17,425 --> 01:33:21,512
Mostly, I just worked
and didn't whine.
2311
01:33:21,513 --> 01:33:23,472
But what a reward that is,
2312
01:33:23,473 --> 01:33:26,183
to look at all of the women
now on television,
2313
01:33:26,184 --> 01:33:28,769
in front of the cameras,
behind the cameras,
2314
01:33:28,770 --> 01:33:30,687
and to feel--
not just in television--
2315
01:33:30,688 --> 01:33:33,148
but to feel, maybe...
2316
01:33:33,149 --> 01:33:35,484
♪ ♪
2317
01:33:35,485 --> 01:33:37,694
Maybe I made a difference.
2318
01:33:37,695 --> 01:33:42,491
♪ ♪
2319
01:33:42,492 --> 01:33:43,909
That's my ending, folks.
2320
01:33:43,910 --> 01:33:45,911
I don't need anything else.
2321
01:33:45,912 --> 01:33:52,877
♪ ♪